South YMCA discussion page…
I was asked if I could create a page for those interested in discussion the South Toledo YMCA story. So, I created this page which will be on the sidebar while this is a hot topic for my neighborhood. Here is the link to the older post on this topic where you can read some of the previous comments.
Here is the Blade article from today: August 3 on this story. I’ll update this section of the page with media links and those of you who comment can also post them in the comment section or email them to me at glasscityjungle@gmail.com.
Updated Sunday September 6th – There was a meeting held yesterday that wasn’t announced here or via email – so I’m guessing this has moved on to the next stage. For those interested – the Blade link.
I received this as a question/comment from a regular reader:
Question: Why do people want the city to get involved with a matter is between two non-profit company’s?
The Y and the church are free to make or break a business deal, this is the way of business each and every day.
The donations are down, the expenses are up, memberships do not cover the costs needed to renovate, what is a business to do then?
Admin note: you will have to scroll down for the additional comments – I have not been able to determine why the comment page for this particular post is leaving such a huge blank area.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:12 amHello all,
I’m Cooper Suter a resident of the south end of Toledo, a YMCA Max member, and a person who is unsatisfied with most aspects of the recently announced closing of the South Toledo YMCA.
I hope that this page can become a rallying point, a clearing house of information, a forum for civil discussion, and a place for the MANY members of our community who are also dissatisfied with this situation to be counted.
Please, if you are able, at the least give your name, area of residence, YMCA member status (or not, this closing affects many more than members), and a statement of your dissatisfaction with this issue.
Thanks, Cooper Suter
August 4th, 2009 at 9:17 amThis was sent out via email by Cooper this morning:
Hello All,
I spent the yesterday playing catch up on the rest of my life, so I really didn’t have time to deal w/much related to this issue yesterday.
This is just a quick note, I’ll follow with more later.
I did have a lot of calls today from new people who are equally concerned as us, I’m sure some of you did also.
As you have conversations with like minded people on this issue, stress that they need to step forward and publicly express their concerns; to the YMCA, to our city officials, to the media, and by joining with us. I feel that with enough public concern being voiced, this issue can be turned to the communities favor.
We have a home on the web thanks to Glass City Jungle.
Be sure and read the heading at the South Y page, there is a link to a previous thread of comments regarding the YMCA that was posted during the last week.
It’s my hope that at the least, this page can become a visible public roll call of those who are not happy with the plans as put forth on Sunday. When you have those conversations with others who are concerned, ask them to if nothing more, visit the page and voice their opposition to the announced plans.
If you have personal thoughts or anecdotes, this can become a good public place to share and debate them with others.
See an item in the media? Instead of commenting at that media sources page, bring a link and your comments to this page.
Think of this site as your “reply all” when your fired up.
Gary mentioned that The Blade is asking for a wider cross section of the community than me be available for comment.
If you have ANYTHING you feel is relevant, and you want to reach out to the Blade do it now (as opposed to waiting for them to call).
The editor on the story for the Blade is Dave Murray, his phone and email are available on line, or call the city desk and request him.
At the bottom of every story the Blade has run is contact info for that reporter, it’s there for a reason, contact them.
Write a letter to the editor (of the Blade, or any other paper).
We all have our varying views of the Blade overall. From what I heard on Sunday, I think most of us agree the Blades stance and ours are in accordance, lets use them as an ally in this issue.
I think we should revisit our plans about meeting again.
I was already aware of many people who would have attended given greater notice, I have run into even more since.
I think we could easily expand our groups reach exponentially if we called one more general talking meeting and gave greater advance notification.
With the groups consensus, I’d propose another Sunday afternoon meeting on Aug. 9th.
Be aware, agreeing to this means you personally will have to step-up and make it happen, get the word out, and steer a consensus building meeting, I’ll be out of town.
Lastly, it is good that we plan to work in unison on things our group can reach consensus on.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:53 amDon’t let your attendance at our meeting, or agreeing with our group be the end of your involvement.
Now is the time to express your personal opinion to the YMCA, to our city officials, to the media, to your neighbors, etc., don’t regret not doing more later.
Any action you personally take, as long as it is civil, can only add to the weight of public concern against this closing, do it and encourage others to.
Again, for background, please look at the previous discussions in the link at the top of the page.
In response to the questions LisaRenee had posted from a “regular reader” (what’s up “regular reader” can’t type? Something to hide?), I offer my own personal views in reply.;
…”Why do people want the city to get involved with a matter is between two non-profit company’s?”….
In a nutshell I don’t.
I don’t, but when city officials step forward in support of a proposal that includes the transfer of city parkland to a private entity for their exclusive use, I’d say the city is already well involved.
I don’t, but when city officials had prior notice of the closing of such a valued neighborhood asset, and chose to remain silent and only step forward in support of the proposal (at a press conference), I’d say the city is already well involved.
Consider how different it would have been if those same city officials when offered prior notice had said, “Hold on, closing the South YMCA? Giving away parkland? That’s big. Let’s find a way through open, honest, communication to rally support, find a compromise, ….?
By these city officials saying nothing earlier, I’d say the city is already well involved by active omission at least, if not by active commission.
…..”The Y and the church are free to make or break a business deal, this is the way of business each and every day.’….
Once again, in simple terms I might agree.
But neither a church, or the YMCA are simply businesses. Or are they?
They are not for profits with supposed community wide missions, both institutions have many worthy causes that could never be defended by a simple profit and loss view of the world, and shouldn’t have to be!
The real “business deal” that is being broken is between the YMCA and it’s members, and between the YMCA and the community it purports to serve.
The process (or lack there of) by which the YMCA chose to “break a business deal” casts their decision in the worst light, and opens the YMCA up to many questions about their overall mission, their governance, and their leadership.
…”The donations are down, the expenses are up, memberships do not cover the costs needed to renovate, what is a business to do then?”…
Ok, let me AGAIN point out; THE YMCA IS NOT A BUSINES!!!
Yes, bills need to be paid, and budgets need to balance.
But in the end, the final role of the YMCA is as a community service based organization, not a profit based organization; that role should lead to a more nuanced approach and solution to the problems than they’ve offered.
When was the seriousness of the financial picture conveyed to the members and community prior to the announced closing and property give away?
What solution was ever discussed or solicited from the members and community prior to the announced closing and property give away?
Why is the YMCA choosing (as it fits their argument) to alternate between saying the financial issues were long term and endemic, but only caused by a state budget that was finalized last month?
The YMCA is paying $300,000.00 a year for THIS quality of financial planning and leadership?
The basing of the closing on “membership” is a way for the YMCA to massage the facts to back their decision.
The Y never explained to its members that specific branch memberships were the only method by which they were tracking the viability of a branch.
Where is the common community good in this equation?
Why not base viability it on actual member usage?
Why not base viability on service to the community?
Have the South YMCA members been made to pay the overhead for all the activities the South YMCA hosts but are attended by members from other branches?
So far as the condition/cost of the building as a reason for closure.
The condition of the facilities has been an issue w/the users of the south Y; especially as we’ve seen facilities and upgrades lavished on the suburban branches.
It can plausibly be argued that YMCA’s long term goal really was to close the South Y and retreat to the suburbs; Why not withhold ongoing maintenance?
Has the YMCA intentionally created a self fulfilling prophecy by intentionally neglecting maintenance?
It’s kind of lonely here with just LisRenee and me posting.
I’ll ask again, are you happy with all aspects of the announced closing of the South YMCA, the recent revelations about how the Y is governed, or how the city has been complicit in this.
If not, now would be the time to come forward and be heard, you can start by a simple statement HERE of your dissatisfaction, stand up and be counted.
Cooper Suter
August 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pmThank you for the letters written by Mr. Cooper, his 10 year old child, and the concerns pertaining to this heartfelt matter in his community. The letter in the Blade and the Free Press were very well written and I could easily discern the sincerity in the letters. I’m interested in learning more facts from the Y but it seems it will take some digging to get to the real truth of this matter,. Let the Y tell the truth to the members and to the community it says they support about what is going on behind closd doors. I will follow this as closely as possible and would like to learn and here more about this.
August 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pmDan Roth
It is a mess, and when I first heard about this I was beyond belief, as they (Y) had signed up new members just days before the announcement, and I can’t believe that they (Y) didn’t have the compassion to tell them! I would be angry as well if I was a new member that signed up and finding out two days later the branch is closing. As a Y member for the past 7 years, I know they need to redo budgets and the current econ conditions are horrible. As the church getting the bldg, well they are a not for profit place and they will DO good in community services. They (church) will invest money into the building. that is what a community needs, it needs someone to invest in the community and make it available. If the Y wants to shut it down, so be it, the church will come in and make things happen. The building will not become a vacant, and eventually torn down due to lack of activity. So kudos to the church for wanting to invest in the building and wanting to provide to the local community.
Now the point is, the Y being BIG into the community aspect should have known that they should have done this on a much better scale. They failed miserably, in hind sight they pissed off the local community, and many others.
So again, if the Y so chooses to close up shop, let them give it to the church so it can remain open, sure it wont be the Local Y, but it will be a place for the community and the building will not become a vacant eyesore!
August 4th, 2009 at 7:56 pmI am writing regarding a conversation on August 3, with Paul Schlatter, Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the YMCA/JCC of Greater Toledo. Mr. Schlatter said he called me at the request of Board Member Neema Bell. Last week I left on her voice mail my name, number, and a desire to chat about the closing of the South Y. He wanted to know if I was an attorney before we started talking. I am not. I am only a common citizen. After our conversation I still have many questions.
August 4th, 2009 at 10:21 pmMr.Schlatter said that: the decision to close the Y needed to be made rapidly because of the cut in ELI funding. He said the South Y has been in need of repair for over twenty years. Were there not twenty years of time to address problems? The haste with which this deal to close the South Y and give it away was done gives the impression that the people responsible for making those decisions just wanted to “wash their hands” of the South Y and gave it to the first group who would take it. I wonder, is that an example of good management?
I share Mr. Schlatter’s excitement about partnering with the University of Toledo Medical Center to put a South Y on their campus, but he admitted that there are no specific plans on the drawing board. He is comfortable leaving that to the University of Toledo Medical Center. I am not. Given state cutbacks for collages and universities and the fine Recreation Center already on UT’s main campus, I wonder how long we will have to wait for that South Y?
Mr. Schlatter said as a private organization the Board reviews the finances and is not required under the charter to have all Board members present to make decisions, and they are under no obligation to open their books to anyone. As a 501C3. surely they must have some dealings with the IRS? I am guessing it is not a popular move to “go after” groups who are “serving” the community. The money may not be great enough. Agents would be required. I suppose we can wait for a random audit to happen. In this fiscal climate, how important is every penny? Can the Board expect giving to their organization to remain at the current level following their decision to give away $445,400? If there is no legal responsibility for the Board, is there also no moral responsibility to Y members or the community they “serve’? How is our family’s $69 monthly MAX membership fee used? Is this organization there to serve the Toledo area or to serve only those who can pay for services? If paying members live in the suburbs where does that leave the city of Toledo?
Mr. Schlatter had never heard of the Beverly Cluster, a group of churches (among them Holy Trinity Lutheran, Our Lady of Perpetual Help, Park Congregational, and Zion United Methodist) who have had joint services, worked together on such projects as Feed Your Neighbor, and exchanged pulpits and choirs for years. This group was never asked for help or approached in any way. Perhaps the Beverly Cluster was dismissed because those churches may not have the cash flow of a “big box church”. But was Rosary Cathedral constructed during the Great Depression from the pennies of ordinary people?
Mr. Schlater said he wants to take full responsibility for the decisions. I commended him for his “buck stops here “ attitude. I asked if he thought Mr. Alexander was being paid enough to answer for those decisions. Mr.Schlatter defended Bob Alexander, his wife, his daughter-in- law and his daughter by saying that they were “absolutely” the best people for the jobs they hold. If that is so, might this be an example of big fish in a small pond.? Might the Alexander family have outgrown this area’s ability to pay the salaries they “deserve”?
The decisions made in executive session by Mr. Alexander are complex and could have presented a number of possible solutions . They directly affect my life and my community.. I would be able to accept an unpopular decision if I felt there had been oversight and input from the community. I have lived quietly in my neighborhood for thirty years. On these matters, I just cannot keep quiet.
.
(Mr. Schlatter volunteered that Board member John DiSalle is his cousin.) I wonder how many of the Board members are related? Does the make-up of the Board of a 501C3 matter?
Given the financial crunch our city faces, might it be appealing to sell 60% of Woodsdale Park to Cedar Creek at fair market value. I am told Cedar Creek made such an offer (under the table) of course.
Good opinion piece in today’s blade:
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090805/OPINION03/908050325
YMCA has lost sight of its mission
Recent developments within the Greater Toledo YMCA have really struck a nerve with me in the way the YMCA has drifted from its mission. Per its Web site, the mission is “Putting Christian principles into practice through programs that build spirit, mind, and body for all.”
Christian? All? Almost anything but this!
In recent years, the only YMCA facilities experiencing expansive renovations are located in affluent areas of Greater Toledo. The facilities in what could be considered “high crime” or simply “non-economically fungible” areas receive far less of the Y’s renovation funds or are simply closed altogether, such as the South Toledo location.
The inclusive “all” is rapidly becoming only for those who can afford it, and I do not mean the overpriced family membership dues but those who can also afford to live in affluent communities where the modern YMCAs are located – and coincidentally, where they are in “Christian theory” needed the least.
This is not the first time this has happened in Toledo. Other faith-based charities and schools continue to shut their inner-city doors, the very doors where charity, family values, and hope are needed the most. Instead of these nonprofit monies being appropriated throughout the entire chain, they are applied to the segmented units from which the majority of the revenue is generated.
I get the capitalistic side of the equation, a scenario of “I live in the suburbs and work hard to create this lifestyle for my family, so the money I spend on organizations should stay in my community.” Unfortunately it is to this pressure that local charitable organizations continue to succumb.
I can agree with the above scenario when businesses’ mission is to simply make money for services offered. But this is not following the mission of “spirit, mind, body,” which in the bigger picture should emphasize neighborliness, community improvement, and humanitarian efforts that are more important and outweigh the dollars and centslessness that are now motivating the Greater Toledo YMCA’s administration.
Holy nepotism.
Randy A. Tucker
Perrysburg
August 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pmI just came from a press conference for Jim Moody at the YMCA south. Jim supports keeping the Y at it’s current location. He has proposed seeking state funds to offset the funding the Y will be losing. We need to get the support of ALL the people in the neighborhoods if we want to have a chance to keep our Y from closing. I will be writing to both the YMCA and Cedar Creek Church to ask for a thirty day stay so that we can all get together to discuss ways to save our Y. As long as this deal isn’t written in stone, I see no reason why they shouldn’t agree to at least listening to our concerns. I would recommend anyone that is concerned about the Y leaving this location to do the same.
August 6th, 2009 at 3:15 pmI can’t see the state with all its own finical troubles being able to help. One thing about Cedar Creek however, I have a friend who goes there and swears to all the good work they sponsor and the people they help, why doesn’t the church adopt the YMCA there and help keep it open?
August 6th, 2009 at 4:48 pm..”why doesn’t the church adopt the YMCA there and help keep it open?’…
Let’s call it a “partnering” instead of an adoption, and I think we may have something to talk about
.
August 6th, 2009 at 5:29 pmIt may not be anyones first choice, but it may be a rational compromise everyone could accept, even as a stop gap until the promised new Y comes about at MUO.
It has been mentioned to a lot of the parties involved.
coop
There are always ways to reallocate money. Especially if it’s for a good cause and in the publics best interest. In this case it is in the city’s best interest to keep this anchor of several neighborhoods open and located right where it is. I believe it was Mr. Suter who pointed out that All our neighborhoods are connected. Take away a hub and you take away a connection. Mr. Moody was the only candidate that responded positively to the e-mails that I have sent. I am by no means trying to plug Mr. Moody, however he is the only one to suggest a plan to try to save the Y.
August 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pmWell finally the Y says something about it, and they are blaming US for not going to them first and giving them a chance to respond. Well guess what, they denied everything and would not talk to us! I actually know a member that signed up 3 days before the announcement and he was not told of the pending closure, he would have never signed up if it was disclosed.
August 7th, 2009 at 10:19 pmWell my membership is ending at the end of this month, I am not going to support an organization that puts the guilt on us when they decided they don’t need to be forthcoming.
Sue Ann Batts and others ask what public accountability and transparency standards apply to the YMCA as a 501 (c) 3. In the first place, all 501 (c) 3 organizations must file IRS Form 990 each year even though they are not tax paying. This form is loaded with information and is easily obtained on line. Probably the easiest way is to log onto Guidestar and create a free account. This will allow access to any organization’s 990. Typically the most recent ones will be about a year to a year and a half old. Read this large document carefully and you can find many things: e.g., total budget, real estate and other internal transfers, board members, the top five highest paid officers and staff and so forth. (It may be of interest to readers that the Greater Toledo YMCA clearly understands the concern about nepotism–this is revealed by the notation on the 990 that Stephanie Danes reports directly to the board and not to Robert Alexander her husband. An interesting question is whether the board, if it had a performance concern regard Ms. Danes, would actually do anything given that they justify their approval of very generous compensation by indicating that they don’t want to loose Robert Alexander. Can they be objective performance reviewers when they so fear disappointing their direct report’s husband?) Another web based resource is Charity Navigator, which provides third-party assessment and rating of non-profits based on analysis and peer comparison of public-record information including IRS 990s. Although Charity Navigator reports and evaluates over 40 local YMCA chapters across the country, Toledo’s has not yet been included. A visit to this site is still interesting since it provides some comparitive insight into a range of the organizational/financial issues now being scrutinized here.
August 8th, 2009 at 9:57 amI think that all members of the South Y should demand a refund of their membership fees.
August 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pmTo All:
There will be an online forum sponsored by Channel 11 today at 5:00 pm. It is certainly not the same as a face-to-face meeting, but could be a constructive tool to get discussions up and running. Thanks to Mark Hertzfeld for the “heads up” on this!
Here is a link to their web site.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:12 amhttp://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=10875100#
Join the web chat if you can.
Regards,
Gary
Has Cedar Creek outlined what their plans are for that building? Are they going to open it up as a community center where neighborhood people can take their kids swimming and other activities? Or will it just be a worship center for the people who are church members?
August 10th, 2009 at 3:12 pmRobin, if the transfer goes through, the facility will be a church for any and all who are seeking, not just members. More importantly it would be an integral member of the community. Not offering the same services as the Y, but offering others. No community pool other than the small ones used for baptism.
August 11th, 2009 at 11:59 amI’m just wondering how many of these people who are complaining about the South Y closing are actual members of the Y? If they are not members-true supporters of Y, then what are they really crying about? Are they just jumping on the Blade bandwagon? Also…I advise people to do some research online about the reporter assigned to the “story”. You may be surprised at what you read. Can you say “conflict of interest”. Wow.
August 12th, 2009 at 10:02 amMarie; What exactly is it that you found and which reporter are you talking about? Please enlighten us. As far as jumping on a bandwagon I’ll climb aboard any vehicle that keeps the “Y” where it is.
August 12th, 2009 at 3:19 pmI have no idea what Marie is referring to either Thomas, the only reporter linked to the Blade on this thread is Neena Satija – the only thing that really comes up is this and I fail to see how that’s anything to “Wow” about as far as a conflict of interest.
August 12th, 2009 at 3:27 pmOne of the Blade writers on the YMCA/Cedar Creek story is an atheist. I find that to be a huge conflict of interest and his “beliefs” are apparent in the stories as they are extremely biased (although, perhaps the stories are biased because it is the Blade and we only get THEIR side of the story). I understand that people are upset that the South Y building is closing…I learned to swim there many years ago. As someone who attends Cedar Creek, all I ask is that you give us a chance. We are more than just a place to worship. I wish you could hear our side of the story. A reputable newspaper would report both sides of the story and not attack a great community organization like the YMCA. Mr. Alexander’s salary and that of his wife (who was in her position long before she became his wife) and daughter-in-law (who was in her position long before she married Mr. Alexander’s son)should not be the focus of the newspaper on a daily basis. What should be in the headlines in why people are leaving the city and what we can do to bring them back. And we wonder why we have brain drain? The real problem in this city is the Blade, period. What non profit is next on the Blades hit list?
Let’s all go to the meeting next week and talk!
August 12th, 2009 at 9:40 pmThis is a copy of a letter I sent to Chantele Henry of Cedar Creek a few days ago. It is part of an ongoing discussion recommending the old Value City site in Maumee as a possible alternative site for a place of worship. I do not expect everyone to agree with my stance but it may help enlighten Marie as to some of our community member’s take on the situation. I , for one, applaud The Blade’s coverage of this issue.
I am glad you are interested in the idea. This would be an ideal location for your organization and may very well benefit the Parkway Plaza across the street which seems to be falling on hard times. I am confident that if your organization can raise the funds for the proposed renovations of the South Branch YMCA, you should be able to raise enough to purchase what, for all intents and purposes, is an otherwise useless piece of property. This venture truly would benefit the surrounding community.
My primary concern is the manner in which this transaction occurred. I am certain that no one involved had any idea what a public relations nightmare this transaction would unleash. The complete lack of communication with our community was the fault. I would like to add that I have not heard any negative statements regarding your organization. It is not Cedar Creek that is the issue here. I know very little about Cedar Creek, but what I do know is complimentary. I speak as a Christian- though I think a very different breed of one. Although I am certain we would disagree on several issues, I feel our ultimate goals are likely the same. The issue is the sense of betrayal from an organization ( the YMCA) that receives tax exemptions by grace of the public to provide services in return.
I am a committed resident of South Toledo and have over the years contributed quite a bit of my own money to enhancing my community. None of this tax deductible or recoverable- all was done out of love for and belief in my neighbors. Despite the offensive comments made by several of the YMCA officers regarding this area, I see this as an idyllic community offering an affordable and safe place to raise a family. The South Branch YMCA is, or was, a major anchor for the area.
Our community contains several small parishes that work together to maintain and promote the area. I do not feel a large church attended by people dependant on cars for transportation is in our best interests. One of many concerns- the property in question would not be able to handle the traffic volume of a large church, even if it is only one or two days a week. I have spoken with several residents of streets that abut the property who fear their no outlet streets would be opened for through traffic. This would completely change the character of their neighborhood. I am not sure what the plans would be, but certainly share their concerns.
I will spare you the details of my political and socioeconomic theories, but will state I feel strongly that recentralization of families to urban areas is imperative. Family oriented community fitness and extracurricular centers – pool included- must be available within walking distance to all.
I would ask of you, if this transfer of property does occur, that you reconsider building a church and consider maintaining a community fitness/activity center. It would be a significant change from the original plans, but I think you may find a very welcoming community and even- despite the preconceived notions of others- those of us with a fair amount of disposable income that would happily provide assistance.
Sincerely and committed to promoting the well being of my community, my nation and my world,
August 12th, 2009 at 11:01 pmMelissa Todd
Marie Says:
One of the Blade writers on the YMCA/Cedar Creek story is an atheist. I find that to be a huge conflict of interest and his “beliefs” are apparent in the stories as they are extremely biased (although, perhaps the stories are biased because it is the Blade and we only get THEIR side of the story).
_____________________________
Marie that’s a very salient point because it’s impossible for an atheist to understand our Christian mission at all. In that, it would be impossible for an atheist reporter to understand why the Young Christian ministries were started to begin with.
You cannot explain to a non-believer why you are tasked with being your brother’s keeper.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:25 amI have to interject something small into the atheist accusation aspect – a good reporter doesn’t let his or her personal bias get in the way of reporting and it is very possible for an atheist or a believer to report on a story involving things they may not personally agree with and do it objectively.
I’m at times a critic of the Blade, but I think this particular accusation at the reporter is unfounded. Some of the emails I have received from those belonging to Cedar Creek on this issue have been troubling as far as their tone as well as some of the comments that have been made here. I do believe the Blade reporting on the Alexander family and Cedar Creek is taking away from what the real discussion should be centered on, which is why didn’t the YMCA share this proposed closing and giving away the facility to it’s members and why was there not more input before the YMCA Board voted on this. It is not for many of us about the history between the YMCA and the Blade, though I think that needs to be understood and placed in context because it helps make that portion of the reporting clearer.
As I told Cooper when I talked to him about this as it began, it is going to take a huge action by our South Toledo neighborhood to save the South Toledo YMCA, I’m not sure that’s possible, but at a minimum this community deserves answers and those who live near the Y as well as those who used the Y should have the chance to express their opinion as to what should be the next use of that building if it is to close.
If we as South Toledo residents want to have any chance at change we need to attend the meeting on Wednesday, August 19th at 6:00 p.m. I can promise you I will be there and I hope to see many of you there as well. This doesn’t have to become a South Toledo versus Cedar Creek scenario, a battle between the “unchurched” and the “churched” but it should be about can the closing be prevented and if not? Then what is the best end result for our community, that may very well be Cedar Creek, but this community needs answers first…I also very strongly feel even though I am a resident of District 3 that Councilman Collins as the representative of District 2 should be invited to this meeting as this has a direct impact on his constituents too.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:49 amPlease explain to me how an atheist reporter would be any more biased in his or her reporting than a Christian reporter, or Muslim or Jewish reporter, or an agnostic reporter? And what exactly leads either of you to believe that an atheist could not grasp the mission of the Y, or the concept of “being one’s brother’s keeper?” If you perhaps knew more people with beliefs different than your own, you might not jump to such conclusions.
More to the point, and I think Lisa picked up on this, I don’t think anyone cares that much about the ADDITION of Cedar Creek per se so much as the LOSS of the Y. If Cedar Creek came in and ran a facility with the same ameneties and programs as the Y, I’m sure people would be thrilled that Cedar Creek was carrying on in the Y’s stead. A church might be a good thing for the community, but it’s patently different than a Y, they simply don’t perform the same function, even if they may have overlapping missions. I think someone needs to explain to the Cedar Creek folks that no one is attacking them, and I may be wrong on this; I haven’t personally seen attacks on them.
And as for the matter of the Blade attacking the Y? The Blade may not be fit for a fishwrapper 75% of the time, but guess what? When a non-profit decides to shut down a location this critical to a neighborhood without engaging in prior discussions with members or residents, and the daily paper reports that it is being run by close family members who are being compensation waaayyy above what directors of non-profits in the metro-Toledo region are typically compensated, they had better make sure they find out what’s going on and report on that. To not do so would probably constitute an ethical violation. Alexander’s compensation might not have been anyone’s business prior to this, but on the surface it seems like it isn’t being true to its mission, and even if this isn’t true the Blade had better report on what’s going on.
August 13th, 2009 at 3:57 pmJack and Lisa, I do think some people have supplanted opposition to Cedar Creek’s plans with their anger/frustration over the South Y closing. It certainly doesn’t seem like their intention but you do hear and see it in some of the comments. The ‘unchurched” moniker keeps coming back which was never directed at a specific community. Lee Powell was being true to the churches mission… “The mission of Cedar Creek is to help spiritually restless and unchurched people love Jesus, serve others and tell the world about Christ.” Note it talks about unchurched people, not unchurched regions.
Cedar Creek does not and cannot offer the same services as the Y, nor should it.
You are both exactly right on in separating these two very distinct issues. I hope we can all do so at the meeting Wednesday.
I hope we can all agree with the Y’s right to make a hard decision such as this even if you do not like the outcome. Does anyone have any doubt the Y would rather remain in the current location and run a full offering of services?
But thanks to everyone for the very civil discussion that has taken place on this board.
August 14th, 2009 at 9:26 amAs you all are aware I am against the Y’s plan to close the south branch. However I am not against Cedar Creek showing an interest in coming to the South End. Someone has already pointed out that the old Value City on the Trail and Detroit is a good place to put the Church. May I also recommend another site. The old Sears Hardware in the Southland Shopping Center is not only big enough but would also be able to handle the traffic that Cedar Creek will bring. Five lanes of road on two sides and easy access and plenty of parking. Just think of economic boom to the area. Plenty of shopping, restaurants, and more. I am sure that the area business’s would be glad to see them locate there. And don’t forget about Farmer Jacks on Burne. Almost as good. This is not about the neighborhoods against Cedar Creek. This about keeping our neighborhoods safe and having a place were neighbor’ can come together. Please, don’t make anything else out of it. Try to see our side.
August 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pmThank you for the clarification Thomas. I understand that it’s difficult to lose something that many people hold dear to their hearts. Change happens and many times, things are just out of our control. I’m sure that some members feel hurt, angry, sad, maybe even betrayed. Everyone involved must work to find a solution, but unfortuately, not everyone will be happy with the end result.
My big concern today (after the latest attack on the Y) is with the Blade. Their biased reported is painfully obvious. Lisa stated above that “a good reporter doesn’t let his or her personal bias get in the way of reporting and it is very possible for an atheist or a believer to report on a story involving things they may not personally agree with and do it objectively.” While I may agree with this statement to an extent, this is not the case at the Blade. Their “reporting” is controlled by an evil man with a grudge in PA. What other biased articles will appear in the paper this weekend? I applaud the Y for not handing over their records to the Blade. Why bother? The Blade will take the information given to them and twist it around to support their own agenda.
Thank goodness we have the Toledo Free Press.
August 14th, 2009 at 7:58 pmI am hesistant to attend a meeting on Wednesday if I will have to hear testimonials from members of the church such as Marie.
Marie said:
Thank you for the clarification Thomas. I understand that it’s difficult to lose something that many people hold dear to their hearts. Change happens and many times, things are just out of our control. I’m sure that some members feel hurt, angry, sad, maybe even betrayed. Everyone involved must work to find a solution, but unfortuately, not everyone will be happy with the end result.
This is the exact arrogance and partronizing attitude that we DO NOT need nor want in the discussion regarding the South YMCA. It is clear that “Marie” is not a resident of South Toledo and has her own biases. She trys to throw the Blade under the bus for doing their job,yet does not have the courage to post with more than her first name.
Marie-Please do not waste my time on Wednesday trying to sell your views to me or other residents of South Toledo, when you do not live here. You lack standing in my eyes and the those of the Community. I hope to not see you at the Teamsters Hall. I am going to attend the meeting looking to have thoughtful discussion that potentially explores alternative to the South YMCA site, not a sales job from Cedar Creek and the Mayor of Toledo as to why the South Toledo Community should have Cedar Creek forced upon us at the YMCA site. You do not know what is best for our community, we do. We live here, you clearly do not. There are other places that you and your church can find to worship if your feel the need to come to South Toledo.
August 14th, 2009 at 10:58 pmMatthew, I’m not sure what to expect since it doesn’t appear that the Y is going to have representation there and it doesn’t appear that District 2 will have representation there. But things could change by then and as I wrote, I am going to be there so anyone who can’t make it will be able to read what happened.
August 14th, 2009 at 11:10 pmHi Lisa, Just want to let you know, that it looks like district 2 will have representation there. This is a statement D. Michael Collins issued yesterday for his webpage, concerning YMCA:
August 14th, 2009 at 11:56 pmAugust 13th, 2009
” I heard from both the YMCA/JCC and Cedar Creek Church today. Each thanked me for my efforts and stated that they were very appreciative. Each informed me that due to conflicts in schedules they would not be able to attend a meeting on Monday as I had offered. Although I will be late due to a prior commitment, I will plan to attend the Mayor’s meeting at the Teamsters Hall on Wednesday August 19th. ”
I am looking forward to your comments about the meeting. Good luck.
Lisa,
August 15th, 2009 at 7:20 amI am not sure the YMCA needs to be there. I do not want to see a singular meeting where there is a attempt to address all the issues at one time. I personally believe that a meeting with Cedar Creek and the comunity is premature. The Mayor should have first coordinated a meeting with the community about the closure of the YMCA and look for alternatves to closure, before we talk about potental re-use of the building/site. This is putting the cart before the horse. I am suprised by the Mayor’s support in this project so quickly. He is from South Toledo, I have heard he is a YMCA memeber and would have expected that he would have thought things through before endorsing such a controversal project with significant community opposition. Thank you for your continued coverage of this important issue.
Time is running short. The people that will attend the meeting can also sway the direction of the conversation. I assume that we will ALL be able to ask questions. I have many questions for Pastor Powell. I hope to show him that there are “alternative” sites that are much better for his Church and South Toledo. I hope that D. Micheal Collins is there also. I have lots of questions for him. First and foremost is what “conditions” Cedar Creek has imposed on the City for this deal to go through. I wish that reps from the Y would show up just to see what they are doing to our neighborhoods. It seems that this is turning into a public relations nightmare for all.
August 15th, 2009 at 12:13 pmThomas – to answer some of your questions (what “conditions” Cedar Creek has imposed on the City for this deal to go through) I reccomend you follow the link for D. Michael Collins discussion page about the YMCA – hope it could answer some of them. http://www.dmichaelcollins.com/ymca_closing
August 15th, 2009 at 10:36 pmAlso, as I posted before, Collins is planning to attend the meeting. I, too, hope that all questions will be answered at the meeting.
Hopefully, everyone reading this page has also read the previous thread of comments that is linked to at the top of the page.
I speak for a lot of others who have concerns around the situation at the South Y when I say this issue IS NOT and SHOULD NOT be about Cedar Creek Church.
I would like to clarify how I was quoted in the story in todays (8/16/09) Blade.
I stand by my comments, and I don’t feel misquoted, but the context was lacking.
I was commenting on Cedar Creeks political savvy in light of the upcoming “town Hall” meeting scheduled with the mayor and councilman craig.
A recurring theme in my conversations with church members (including Pastors Powell and Snyder) has been their claimed surprise, and lack of experience dealing with “Toledo politics”.
I think this third joint public appearance between church and city officials to trumpet the churches plans belies their proclaimed political naivete.
This meeting the mayor and church have announced IS NOT the meeting that the concerned YMCA and community members have been requesting; THAT meeting was for the YMCA, and CITY officials to outline their actions and reasoning, and answer the YMCA and community members concerns.
This meeting the mayor and church have announced is most likely about continuing to bulldoze the announced plans through as a done deal, and that we should all move along and pay no attention.
This meetings audience will likely be stacked with YMCA corporate shills, and members of the church, most who will not even be South Y area residents.
This meeting will likely not be an open forum for forthright good faith questions and answers.
The concerned YMCA and community members have asked privately, and in good faith for a meeting for over two weeks now, unfortunately the YMCA, our mayor, and councilman craig have used that time to instead continue to massage the message and plan PR events, not true open meetings.
We’ve skipped a step in this process, and anyone with concerns should be contacting the mayor, councilman craig, and the YMCA and calling for a meeting such has been requested, not a PR stunt.
Cooper Suter
August 16th, 2009 at 11:59 amFor those of you who missed it, this mornings Conklin and Co.;
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/video?id=6966735
The segment deserves in depth comment, but time doesn’t allow me to do so now.
I sent the following email to Lee Conklin;
“Mr. Conklin,
I viewed this Sunday’s edition of Conklin and Company with Robert Alexander and Paul Schlatter concerning the announced closing of the South YMCA.
You asked some pertinent questions, thank you.
One glaring element was missing from your broadcast, and it is the same element Mr. Alexander, Mr. Schlatter , and the corporate YMCA have also glaringly overlooked; the South YMCA members and community.
Unfortunately, your omission of any dissenting opinions or representatives of the parties affected turned a relevant news story/forum into what can easily be viewed as a managed PR event for the benefit of the corporate YMCA.
If you are interested to have a future discussion including affected SouthYMCA and community members, I would be willing to participate, or would be able to put you in contact with other affected members of the South YMCA and community.
Thank you,
August 16th, 2009 at 12:57 pmCooper Suter”
Cooper, I can tell you from first hand experience and years of friendship, Lee Powell is not a creature of politics. His soul burns for serving the Lord. He, and all of us at Cedar Creek are going into this political show kicking and screaming… but with one purpose; to allow God to use us as it fulfills His plan.
I do agree with your statement of ’savvy’ though. Yep, Lee is one savvy pastor! Of course none of this does anything to lessen your communities loss of your local Y. For that, I think everyone at Cedar Creek offers our best wishes.
August 17th, 2009 at 3:43 pmBob,
August 17th, 2009 at 7:54 pmI appreciate the graciousness of your reply, it reflects favorably on you and your church.
Cooper Suter
Press Release
Concerned YMCA and community members to hold press conference regarding proposed closing of South YMCA.
Toledo, OH Tuesday August 18, 2009
A grass roots coalition consisting of concerned members of the YMCA and the community will be holding a press conference at 6 p.m., Tuesday August 18, 2009, at the South YMCA/Woodsdale Park.
In response to the proposed closing of the South Toledo YMCA, and the proposed transfer of the YMCA property and city parkland, a group of concerned people immediately assembled. Over the ensuing weeks, the group has grown to include Y members and non-members alike throughout the metro Toledo area.
The group has attempted to work through appropriate channels for three weeks to bring about their desired goals. Through consistent contact with YMCA and City of Toledo officials, the group has worked to:
-Forward the concerns of affected YMCA and community members;
-Request an open forum between YMCA officials, Toledo city officials, and the many concerned community members;
-Find an equitable alternative to the South Toledo YMCA closing as announced.
In light of the continued stonewalling of the group’s efforts by YMCA and city officials, we are holding a press conference at 6 p.m., Tuesday August 18, 2009, at the South YMCA/Woodsdale Park to publicly express our concerns. We are steadfast in our requests to ensure a sustainable community-based South Toledo YMCA family center. Dismantling the South Y significantly reduces their presence and breaks down the cohesiveness of the surrounding community. The group seeks that a decision be reached with their input for the best interest of the surrounding community and neighborhood rather than the wallets of Y and city officials. It is in keeping with YMCA mission, that maintaining a South Toledo YMCA builds “strong kids, strong families and strong communities”. Together for a strong Toledo.
If you would like additional information or to talk with someone prior to the press conference, please contact:
Cooper Suter
cwsuter@bex.net
419-382-5865
Gary Batts
garybatts@ameritech.net
419-973-4013
Mark Hertzfeld
August 18th, 2009 at 12:23 pmmph1@buckeye-express.com
419-340-0253
ashamed…. Several weeks ago I called a church member and voiced my concerns, as I knew everyone in the community would end up in an uproar. I was told to not worry about it and that its all speculation, well fast forward to today, and its a mess. The Y is going to loose memberships because of this. Cedarcreek is getting harassed because of the dirt and mud that has been thrown around. CEDARCREEK is not the blame, the Y went to them… They have said yes, and they will sink in at least a million in renovations to the site, they will make it in a community center for all. Bottom line the community is MAD at the Y, they feel like they have been robbed. Now had the Y said something, it would be a different story. But selling memberships 3 days prior to the announcement was not the thing to do.
August 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pmSure the Morse center is up and running but its no where near what the Y on the trail can offer! And why did Mr A think he needed a hummer for a lease vehicle is beyond comprehensible, again the focus of negativity should be directed to the Y and not CEDARCREEK
To “whattofunk” I say AMEN! and thanks.
We all can find common ground if we just make sincere effort.
Cooper Suter
August 18th, 2009 at 3:24 pmThe Y is just doing what all the other smart people in Toledo are doing…. GETTING OUT!
I just wonder why it took them so long with the bland’s continued character assassinations.
August 18th, 2009 at 3:48 pmThis is a tough issue to decide on. On one end, I think the Y has handled this situation poorly. Mr. Alexander has not helped his cause with his outbursts and lack of discussion. On the other hand, the Blade is clearly enjoying this hatchet job. One thing to remember, it is not the end of the world if the Y leaves the area. The North end does not have a Y, neither does the Central city. The area goes on. I really don’t think having a Y in the area makes that much of an impact. I am a Max Member and quite frankly have not been overly impressed with the Y or their programs.
I am not a member of Cedar Creek, nor do I plan to be. However, I have heard a tremendous amount of good about the church and what they do, and I think the church may have more of an impact to the neighborhood than the Y.
Just my 2 cents.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:20 pmThe basics of what was expressed at Tuesday’s press conference;
We are here because of the announced closing of the South YMCA.
We have been seeking an open discussion with the YMCA and city officials to discuss this closing.
YMCA and city officials have not cooperated in having the open discussion we have requested.
We are here to address the gap in trust and communication between the YMCA and the community.
This gap in trust has been created by the YMCA’s;
-Lack of communication.
-Lack of accountability.
-Excessive levels of compensation within the corporate YMCA.
We are asking for the communities continued support to bring about;
-An open meeting with the YMCA.
-A viable and continuously operating family YMCA in south Toledo.
Because of the gap in trust, and to resolve lingering doubts about the YMCA’s financial stewardship, we have retained legal counsel.
Our goals are to obtain the YMCA’s detailed finances, and to stop the transfer of south YMCA property away from the community.
Our goals are in the public interest and serve the entire community.
We have tried to achieve our goals without the legal system, and we would like to continue to do so.
If we continue to meet with stonewalling and the us-against-them mentality of the current YMCA leadership, we will have to pursue a legal solution.
Fifty years ago, the community came together to create this YMCA.
If the YMCA chooses to close their operations here, this property which was created by the community should be returned to the community.
Thank you.
August 19th, 2009 at 11:21 amYour goals will serve no one. You will fail.
The YMCA doesn’t HAVE to have your trust. They don’t HAVE to resolve doubts. You don’t HAVE to have a legal solution.
What you SHOULD do is try to find someone to replace them. If it’s as viable of an entity as you claim it to be then someone should be willing to fill the void.
If the void is not filled then it’s doubtful it was viable.
August 19th, 2009 at 3:04 pmWell, there is going to be a press conference in about an hour at the YMCA called by Mr. Alexander to make an announcement regarding the South Toledo YMCA facility.
I don’t want to speculate but it doesn’t seem as if they’d be having a press conference if they were still planning on closing it…We’ll find out in about an hour.
August 19th, 2009 at 3:08 pmThe South Y will stay open until approximately Thanksgiving at a minimum. I know they have quantified a set number of new community memberships that will be needed to keep it open after that but I’m not certain what that number is.
O.K. South Toledo residents – here is your chance. Even though I am on a volunteer design team for Cedar Creek, I wish you the best of luck in keeping your community facility.
August 19th, 2009 at 4:32 pmThe South Toledo Y will stay open until Thanksgiving – 500 new memberships from the 43614 and 43609 that are $40.00 for an individual and $50 for a family per month for three years will be needed to keep the YMCA open.
These memberships have to be on the automatic payment plan to count from the flyer that was handed out at the Press Conference.
August 19th, 2009 at 4:55 pmone man’s agenda harming a great organization.
Cooper you should be ashamed of yourself. It’s this type of mentality that has Toledo in the position it is in now. I have enjoyed watching politicians and neighbors take ownership over something that they have no control or say in. Can’t Mr.Konop and the other politicians go do something useful? And i keep hearing people say all of South Toledo is mad – i live in South Toledo and I am pretty sure I and nearly everyone I talk with is very alright with what has been going on. Especially those of us in the habit of driving to the south west Y and enjoying a nicer facility.
Why is it in Toledo we cannot understand basic economic policies?
1) when you don’t have enough paying customers – you close down.
2) it takes qualified people, well paid, to run great organizations.
Why is it also we seem to have such problem with basic logic?
1) is it so surprising that in an organization of 2,600 employees 4 of them happen to be related?
2) is it really better for the YMCA to invest 2-3 million dollars in a bad location, in a bad building, when that same amount of money would be a great start on a first class facility?
Lastly, because of this war-path that Cooper has been on you have harmed the Y’s reputation, Robert Alexander, his daughters, his wife’s, and many others in the organization.
But of course, in Toledo we always blame the successful for being successful.
Here’s to hoping the next generation of Toledoan’s think a little bit clearer than the current.
August 19th, 2009 at 5:09 pmLOL. Great move. You can keep your lawyer just pull out your checkbook.
Let’s see what’s really in the public interest and what serves the entire community.
August 19th, 2009 at 5:23 pmSpeaking as an individual, not for a group;
August 19th, 2009 at 7:14 pmI see this as an olive branch from the YMCA, but not a tenable deal reached through open mutual discussion.
Hopefully though, this gets both parties unlocked and talking openly and forthrightly.
Cooper Suter
Well SOME of the Y staff that I saw was very intensive listening to what MR A had to say, I know they are deeply concerned with what has transpired and I also noticed Pastor Powell was seriously listening to every word. It is a community thing no matter what, now that both sides are at the table on this, and now the South Y has a possibility of staying open for another 3 years if the membership goals are met. Although the Y has a ways to go, to correct the image that they have created from this mess, they have taken the step and extended the South Y’s life expectancy and I believe they the Y will listen to the community as the community HAS and will continue to SPEAK
August 19th, 2009 at 9:16 pmI am curious about everyone’s thoughts on a topic occassionally broached tonight… the condition of the facilities. In the interest of full disclosure, I volunteer for Cedar Creek as project architect and would be involved in any of our efforts at the facility. When I look at the building I see a lot of items at or near the end of their life cycle. How much does the condition of the facility affect you as the end users?
BTW – You were all so kind and gracious tonight. God bless you all!
August 19th, 2009 at 9:30 pmBob, as you know a lot of works needs to be done with the south Y building in the coming months. If the creek takes ownership YOU will be the one with the daunting task, no worries as I know creek volunteers will step up and help however they can. However the way the Y started this mess is the reason why the people has spoken, but it does make sense for the Y to let the bldg go, and move operations as it would be more cost effective. It is the way that they did it, so Kudos to you and everyone at the creek for wanting to keep this building open for the public…
August 19th, 2009 at 10:31 pmThis is snipped from a post of mine at the Free Press story on this;
…..”This is only a replay of what the YMCA and city officials attempted on a Sunday afternoon three and a half weeks ago; except this time they lined up a couple more city stooges to help them bull it through.
This plan was created and then sprung on the community ONLY by the YMCA and the Mayor.
It is a transparent attempt to saddle the community with an untenable plan, shift the blame, and then proceed on as they announced in July.
Obviously this plan is not in play.
The “activists” and community have not accepted this, will not accept this, and are not in this game.
We have ninety days; with actual good faith and communication on the YMCA’s part, a tenable long term plan can be created. A plan that the “activists” and community will embrace and move forward.
NO ONE should be rushing out to buy a membership based on the plan proposed today.”……
Cooper Suter
August 20th, 2009 at 2:41 pm*** Meeting Tonight!!! – 7:00 pm Notice ***
*** Park Church – 1456 Harvard Blvd. ***
*** Parking Lot Entrance ***
Who: All Toledoans who care about the YMCA!
When: Thursday Aug 20th – 7:00 PM
Where: Park Church 1456 Harvard Blvd.
Conference Room
Why: Strategy development / Action Plan
What: Bring ideas, enthusiasm & calendar!
How: Time is short!
This is a strategy / work session. We will explore ways to stop the closing of the South Toledo Y. Come prepared to share in this discussion. We will then select tasks and begin work. Invite your friends! South Toledo’s Y is too important to the community to close down. Come get involved!!! See you tonight!
August 20th, 2009 at 4:10 pmGary I’ve got a great way to stop the closing of the YMCA? A membership drive. You can sign people up at your meeting! What an amazing and thought provoking idea.
And Cooper. I read in the TFP that you still are pursuing legal action if you do I hope someone puts a equally frivolous lawsuit on you. Because if you do continue legal action then you really are an “activist” trying to force your will upon people. They clearly are giving you a chance to keep it open but you’re on here telling people not to use that chance.
This is the problem with the country. If I don’t like the decisions made I am going to sue at all costs.
August 20th, 2009 at 10:58 pmI considered signing up for the Y before the whole mess started – I live walking distance from the South facility. Now I hear they might stay open if they get 500 members from the two zip codes. Tell me how you want to convince people (me) to sign up? I am afraid that I sign up, but there won’t be 500 memberships and I am stuck paying fee for 3 years and driving to a location that’s farther away…
August 21st, 2009 at 8:55 amMEDIA ADVISORY
From State Senator Teresa Fedor
11th Senate District
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 21, 2009
Contact: Ursula Barrera, Legislative Aide to Senator Fedor; 614-466-5204
Senator Fedor and Community Advocates Respond to YMCA Offer
Toledo, Ohio — State Senator Teresa Fedor , along with Cooper Suter, Mark Hertfeld, and Gary Batts, will respond to the YMCA’s offer of reprieve and reluctance to make finances open and transparent.
When: Noon, TODAY – 8/21/2009
Where: South End YMCA, 1226 Woodsdale Park Dr.
CONTACT: For more information, contact Ursula Barrera , Legislative Aide to Senator Fedor at (614) 466.5204.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:03 amWhattofunk thank you for your comments. I agree there is a lot of work to be done to the facility no matter who the owner is. The one thing I can tell you from the church’s end of things is the items that need repair are items we would be removing anyway. The roofs that need repair would need remodeling due to changes. The boiler system would be torn out and replaced with a rooftop system with A/C. The electrical systems would be completely upgraded.
This is work we typically figure on no matter what facility we go to. So from that end, it is more efficient for Cedar Creek to renovate the building than the Y to repair the building.
All that said, I hope the community is successful in reaching the membership goal and the South Y can be enjoyed for years to come before a new facility is on line.
The question of what to do with the building may come again in three years.
August 21st, 2009 at 11:51 amIf your here, be aware of what the YMCA did yesterday, go to the thread on the press conference at the south Y.
I posted the following there also;
…”Have you seen the footage at the Blades site?
The woman who was forced to correct a YMCA EMPLOYEE on civil behavior;
…. “This woman is a state senator, you cannot interrupt her”….
That was an ordained minister who was to have been a pastor at the south YMCA.
It’s a sad day when the leader of a Christian not for profit (Robert Alexander) leads his EMPLOYEES in a disruptive confrontation, and they have to be reprimanded by a MINISTER in front of cameras.
All this ugliness is compounded by the facts that;
-Alexander was joined in leading this show of ugliness by his wife, and a board members wife.
-All this is partially funded with our tax and membership dollars.
THIS IS THE HUBRIS THE YMCA HAS DISPLAYED THROUGHOUT!
ALL WE HAVE ASKED FOR THROUGHOUT, IS OPEN HONEST COMMUNICATION LEADING TO A SUSTAINABLE SOUTH YMCA.
INSTEAD OF FACILITATING COMMUNICATION, ROBERT ALEXANDER PREFERS TO BREAK THE Y’S TRUST WITH THE Y MEMBERS, AND NOW THE GREATER COMMUNITY.”…
Cooper Suter
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 amThey say they are keeping it open at least until Thanksgiving and yet this morning I saw 3 moving trucks moving equipment out.
August 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmI have been following this whole situation in The Blade since it first surfaced. I have also been reading all of the posts here. My opinions are based on my background as a retired teacher for TPS, being the executive director of a local 501 (c)(3), and my life long support of the city of Toledo.
I have never been a proponent of The Blade. Anyone who has lived in Toledo for any length of time knows that The Blade has had a personal vendetta against Toledo teachers and the TFT leadership. I do, however, have a certain amount of respect for many of the stories The Blade has investigated. The coverage on the Y’s decision to close the south facility is an example. It is clear The Blade has bitten down on the Y board and administration and doesn’t appear to want to let go! Bias aside, excellent points have been reported:
1. The Y receives a respectable amount of public funding which comes partly out of my threadbare pocket.
2. Transparency is lacking in a big way! How they spend their (my) money is important to me. The compensation is outrageous for a nonprofit. I want to know exactly what else is part of those packages -including credit card amounts.
3. Where is the accountability and communication?
Beyond all of the stories and hype, I believe this issue has taken on a very scary religious angle. Asking people if they are indeed Christians or assuming that a reporter is or is not an atheist and how in the heck it makes any difference is frightening and repellent to me! Being a Christian, Jew, Muslim, or atheist has no bearing on a person’s ability to be objective. It CERTAINLY has no bearing on whether or not that person behaves in an ethical, moral, or intelligent manner.
The Y contributes much to our community and Cedar Creek does also. It just seems that the Y board has become complacent and is certainly out of touch with reality. What needs to be investigated is what the effect is on an organization when so many members from one family are instrumental in day to day operations and decisions. Just as any individual family can be insular and short-sighted, so can an institution. To repair the damage this short-sightedness has done to the Y, a serious rethinking of leadership on all levels needs to begin!
A big part of running a nonprofit is encouraging goodwill and public trust. At least that has been my operating philosophy. There is no way the typical nonprofit could retain local monetary support without that goodwill and trust. How is it that the Y has drifted so far? Has continued public funding without accountability or transparency made it complacent? I think so! In this economy the Y should be very worried that they may be losing that trust. The solution MUST include a critical shake-up – FAST!!
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:08 pmGerald, they stated they were moving the gymnastics program, it’s also fairly clear that the effort to get 500 new paid three year memberships is not being received as a way to save the South Toledo location.
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmFor the record, here is the text of what I had to say at Friday’s press conference.
Do these few statements merit Robert Alexander calling YMCA EMPLOYEES from across the city to shout them down?
I first read a prepared statement;
…..”The communities response to the challenge issued by the YMCA and JCC of Greater Toledo on August 19, 2009 to save the south Toledo YMCA;
The community was again NOT consulted in the planning of this challenge.
The community was again NOT given notice of the announcement of this challenge.
The community wants to support a practical and sustainable plan brought about through open discussion between the YMCA and the community.”……
I then offered copies of our statement from Tuesdays rally.
None were taken by the YMCA EMPLOYEES present.
I stated that I wanted to repeat some words and phrases from Tuesdays statement.
Those words and phrases were;
-Open discussion
-Gap in trust
-Communication
-Accountability
-Excessive compensation
-Financial stewardship
-Detailed finances
-Public interest
-Stonewalling
-Us against them mentality
I then stated something to the effect of,
…”And lastly, two words I’d never expected to be associated with the proceeding ones in a negative sense….YMCA LEADERSHIP”
The text of the remarks Senator Fedor came to make on Friday are available elsewhere on Glasscityjungle.
You should read them and ask the same question I posed at the top;
“Do these few statements merit Robert Alexander calling YMCA EMPLOYEES from across the city to shout them down?”
Cooper Suter
August 22nd, 2009 at 5:44 pmI belong to the St. Francis YMCA in Mi. and I want to know why Mr. Alexander and his family have their noses in the trough for $630,000.00??? The key word is his family!! Nobody but his immediate family can do the job??? Gimme a break!! After his little fiasco last week with Fedor Im convinced he is trying to hide something. After all, they say a best defense is an offense!!! If he is the nut case he seems to be, maybe it would be in the best interest of the YMCA to terminate Admin delete Alexander and his keep the money in the family bunch!! It sounds to me like he is just grabbing all he can for as long as he can!! If he would like to talk to me Im in the phone book in Lambertville.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:01 pmThe YMCA claims to be a non-profit organization. Good thing. With the Alexander family into the Y to the tune $630,000.00 per year its a little tough to make a profit. If they made $100,000.00 less between them the Y could stay open, dont ya think? I hate to say it, but I believe Mr. Alexander is throwing out a smoke screen with his antics last week. After all, they say the best defense is an offense. If the YMCA has nothing to hide why not open the books to public scrutiny. I understand that the Ymca south are moving out equipment as we speak!! (2:44pm Sunday). What happened to the postponement?? Seems to me Mr. Alexander is doing exactly what he pleases and forgets the members that pay his and his family members salaries!! It seems he thinks he is a world unto himself dont you think??
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:53 pmBeing a South Toledo resident (43614) and a YMCA member I find it interesting that a couple of points have not been given much attention… They must not have made it through the spin cycle:
Nepotism: What family owns the Blade, WTOL, BSCN and Buckeye Cable System? How much does their entire extended family make and why isn’t that number published in the paper every other day. Where does their CEO rank among others in the field (or compared to Mr. Alexander’s for that matter)? Why is one private business throwing stones from their glass house to the glass house of another?
Transparency: Why wouldn’t Sen. Fedor comment on her voting record regarding the funding of the Early Learning Initiative or on the comments to her office regarding that issue? What does SHE have to hide?
Axe’s to Grind: Why is the “legal counsel” retained by this group that claims to represent the South Toledo community also the same “legal counsel” that represents the Blade? Who provided this “legal counsel” to this group of community members? Does it seem the least bit suspicious that the Blade (who is benefiting from their inflammatory coverage of this drawn out issue) and the community group share the same “legal counsel”. Would it be wrong to assume either a conflict of interest or is this a “mutually beneficial” pairing?
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:55 pmJered- With all due respect you are attempting to compare “apples to oranges.”
The Blade, BCSN, Buckeye, etc. are PRIVATELY held corporations. They can do what they want without you and I questioning the nepotism. They take the risk with their OWN money; they reap the reward. The Greater Toledo YMCA is not privately held. It is a non-profit that takes tax and membership dollars from YOU and I. Therefore it is not immune from public scrutny about how these dollars are spent. Especially from those of us that are dues paying Members.
Transparency- The State budget is billions of dollars. An amendment was attempted to be inserted to maintain funding and it did not go through. This seems fairly cut and dry to me.
Axe’s to grind- Do you know that one of the legal counsel retained by the Communty also represented Carty Finkbeiner to get the recall thrown out? The other represented “Take Back Toledo.” We sought strong legal counsel in case we needed them. Is that not a prudent thing to do?
Please check you facts before you attempt to blast the well intended trying to save a community asset.
August 24th, 2009 at 5:16 amMatthew,
August 24th, 2009 at 10:06 amI was merely asking questions, not “blasting the well”, but to your last statement, what is it exactly that the community is trying to save? Is it the 50+ year old building? Is it the convienient work out facility? I guess I am confused by the message coming out of all of the reporting.
Jered….. the biggest thing is the Y was getting rid of the building without telling it’s members ahead of time. The Y sold memberships the day before the closing announcement, and since there was a dollar and sense issue, It was discovered that Mr Alexander leased a hummer at the Y’s Expense, which is not being conservative!
Due to his blowups and yelling at the community, the Y board needs to get off their arse and do something, or are they afraid of him? Neverless the community support for the Y has been damaged by the recent events, Yep I heard it from the top, and if the man wants to be rude and obnoxious then there is no way this household will support that! Espically coming from a christian organization.
August 24th, 2009 at 10:22 amHere are some additional facts:
Robert ALexander- overpaid Y chief
James Hartung- x port guy with tons of trouble
James Caldwell- Overpaid dude that sells food to help poor
All three have been the center of controversy. All are or were member on Caldwell’s board.
What do they say, “birds of a feather flock together.”
August 25th, 2009 at 9:48 amCoalition of Concerned Citizens and YMCA Members Will Hold Rally this Wednesday
The Coalition of Concerned Citizens and YMCA Members invite the entire Greater Toledo community to rally in support of the South Toledo YMCA this Wednesday at 5:30 P.M. The Coalition will call for a practical and sustainable membership drive for the South Branch YMCA. The rally will also call for full disclosure and accountability between the YMCA, its members and the community.
When: Wednesday, August 26 at 5:30 PM
Where: South End YMCA, 1226 Woodsdale Park Dr.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pmWhat really is the big deal about one YMCA being closed? There are business all over being closed because of the economic conditions. I wonder if this really is a Blade vendetta? There is so much hardship right now in our City, I would expect that one YMCA is the least of our problems. Huge unemployment,school system in crisis, housing market..the list goes on.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:36 pmThere seems to be a handful of people(counting on one hand)that are helping the Blade keep this alive. I would hope that this same group of concerned citizens would work together to help the city on these much bigger issues. They’ve had their 5 minutes of noterity now use it for something bigger.
On that same note, is Teresa Fedor holding a sign on Anthony Wayne Trail really how we want to spend our tax dollars….my answer is no, too much other big stuff going on that needs our State governments help.
Lulu brings up a great point about there seeming to be something else fueling this fire. It just seems a little hyprcrtitical, where are the rallying cries for the Post Office closings in the City? Was the community consulted on those? Did we ask for “transperancy” in their accounting? Was there “legal counsel” retained? How many Blade articles and letters to the editor were printed in reference to their closings? How many rallies are held for other private businesses going under or churches (also non-profits like the YMCA) closing their doors?
The solution to this is quite simple. If you belong to the YMCA and you’re unhappy then drop your membership. If you live in the South Toledo community and you don’t have a membership then don’t buy one (and don’t complain).
Speaking of which, I wonder if Sen. Fedor has a membership?
August 25th, 2009 at 4:45 pmIt is a shame that no one involved wants anything to do with you unless you just want to hold up a sign. I called Mr. Suter to offer my help and have never received a return call. It is sad that the arguement is becoming more important than the issue.
August 25th, 2009 at 5:55 pmThanks Jered! I thought I had a valid point also. The other issue from what I can gather is that some of the people at the YMCA are receiving big salaries. Give me a break! are you not going to go to the hospital? I’ve heard their CEO’s and upper management are making a cool buck. No this isn’t about the South Y or the CEO of the Y its about the Blade being challenged and developing a story that could hurt the challenger. Very dissapointed, yet once again, in the Blade, but I guess if your the only game in town you can make up the news.
August 25th, 2009 at 7:11 pm…”called Mr. Suter to offer my help and have never received a return call”…..
Ouch!
Big Jay, and anyone else who’s tried without success to contact me, sincerely, I apologize.
The only real excuse I can answer is I didn’t realize the mess I was stepping into a month ago.
I’m no movement leader, and I’m no “community activist”.
I’m that fat blue collar guy down the block w/the big mouth.
But I’m also that guy down the block who will go out in his underwear (if everyones lucky) at 3AM when your car’s getting broken into tackle the punk doing it.
It’s not because I really know you that well (or maybe even like you that much); but I saw something I felt wasn’t right in my neighborhood and wanted to try and make it better.
So, I stepped into something I felt wasn’t right;
-w/my neighborhood
-w/my elected officials
-w/an organization of which I am a member
All I/we have really been asking for is honest answers to honest questions from people who if they have nothing to hide, shouldn’t begrudge it.
In the end, there’s only 24 hrs. in the day, and;
-dinner still needs to be cooked.
-the bills still need to be paid.
-the lawn still needs mowed.
-the kids still need to get dropped off and picked up from lessons, practices, play dates, and school, etc.
-my wife still works full time.
-the vacation is still scheduled.
-etc.
If you still have concerns with any of the issues around this; don’t let one overwhelmed schmucks inability to return a phone call keep you from being heard.
Come to tomorrows rally, talk with other people, you may even find one you mostly agree with; hatch your own action plans.
Otherwise the train is going to leave the station and we’re all gonna be wondering what happened to our city, our institutions, and our tax dollars.
Cooper Suter
August 25th, 2009 at 8:00 pmCooper, I wonder already what is happening with our City, our institutions and our tax dollars, but really does that have anything to do with one organization? I get that the membership has a right to express their opinions, but where were you when people were upset about the State budget cuts, that led to the funding cuts that are impacting not only the YMCA but many, many other organizations. What is not right, that the YMCA doesn’t have additional funding to keep a sagging YMCA open? What really are you trying to accomplish, because I don’t think the goal you’ve set is realistic. From what I’ve read the Y has met all of the financial obligations that is required of it. Do other organziations open up the books for everyone to see? even non profits? Maybe they do and I’m not in the loop on this. From what I’ve read (as biased as that may be) The YMCA revoked the closing of the Y in hopes that those who are so impassioned in the neighborhood could come together and start a campaign to help save this Y by selling additional memberships. Doesn’t sound to me like the Y people are thumbing their noses at anyone and are attempting to come together with the neighborhood, guess it’s not good enough….only blood will do? or is it about diminishing an organziation that does so much good for so many or maybe it’s about being a pawn for the Blade.
August 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pm….”I don’t think the goal you’ve set is realistic”….
Sighhhh……
Lulu,
The “goal” we’ve set are copied below.
Do they seem like a lot for people who are members of an association and support it both with their membership dollars, their tax dollars, and their volunteer time to ask for?
…”We are asking for the communities continued support to bring about;
-An open meeting with the YMCA.
-A viable and continuously operating family YMCA in south Toledo.”….
…..”The community wants to support a practical and sustainable plan brought about through open discussion between the YMCA and the community.”……
So far as being;
….”a pawn for the Blade”…
I could only wish, it’d have to pay better than what I’m getting for my efforts now.
For you that will question my motives, I can give you about 298,000 quick reasons why my motivation in this should be a lot less suspect than Bob Alexanders.
While we are at it, since family matters a great deal to me also, why don’t we just say there’s at least 600,000 reasons MY motivation shouldn’t be being questioned before Bob’s.
Cooper Suter
August 25th, 2009 at 10:06 pmI read the Toledo Free Press recap on the Blade and the YMCA’s history. It looks like the Blade has run several negative articles in the past regarding the Y and that the Y has on several occasions opted not to support the development of central city facilities. I’m not seeing the conspiracy here. I’m not particularly supporting The Blade, I really don’t care, but have they ever published any untruths, or just opinions that not everyone agrees with?
There really are alot of questions that should be answered by the Y to people who ask regarding this situation. One thing I would like to point out is that there were no requests for aid by the YMCA listed on the Lucas County stimulus funds. Did they just forget, or do they not need the money? TPD is asking for $1,000 bicycles- if I had known I’d have placed a request for a new lawn mower. Whether any of the questions would change the situation doesn’t matter, but if people ask, they deserve an answer.
To keep this all simple:
-the loss of the south branch Y is seen by many as a serious loss to the community
-the Y has not treated the community members who have rallied in support of their organization to maintain its presence at the current location with dignity
There are several people who are dedicating their time and effort to support the Y in hopes to maintain the current location. Whether or not these attempts are seen as heroic or futile, the are done out of a desire to help their community. These people deserve the respect of any decent human being.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:34 pmCoop,
I can appreciate the passion you have. As a matter of fact I read a story where you were interviewed while scrapping to make ends meet. While I agree with your methods you are taking, I think as the man with the spear head, you are also (in a sense) responsible to come up with a backup plan. Realistically if no money has been invested in the Y in 20 years. They have planned to abandon the city forever. The Y has been a great organization in the past, standing behind the message of Jesus. Unfortunately at some point, they thought he bled green, there is a new Y movement across the country. They have been abandoning sites to move to wealthier neighborhoods or partner with medical facilities for more profit. Amazing that a non profit can do that.
I say we make a token offer to purchase the Y. Lets say $50,000. The new arrangement will eliminate the excessive wages and then South Toledo can be proud of their own place. Without all of those excessive wages, we can build a bigger and better facilty and we can partner with other South Toledo businesses to offer more programming. I can help with the raising of the $50,000 if you are willing to use your new voice.
Lets roll
August 25th, 2009 at 11:56 pmI have to wonder what the big problem of Cedar Creek is? They seem to run a good operation to me.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:44 amBigJay,
…”scrapping to make ends meet”…
Not quite an accurate portrayal of my life, but we all know you take your chances when you open your mouth around a reporter.
Charlie needed an everyman to inhabit his piece on where our American industrial base is going (in the scrap heap).
He took some threads out of my life and wove them into the scrapping everyman you read about in his column.
My “gamble on life” hasn’t crapped out yet.
It’s kinda ironic, that whole piece came out of a casual conversation I had at a Gesu girl scouts father/daughter dance.
Cooper Suter
August 26th, 2009 at 8:13 amI think it has been pretty well documented here and elsewhere that Cedar Creek Church is not the issue.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:12 amThe YMCA made me give 30 days notice to quit. Looks like I’ll be paying through September…
August 26th, 2009 at 9:27 amLOL, sorry Coop. I had no intention to insult you. That is the only way i figured out to describe the article. That was my error.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:04 amMelissa:
August 26th, 2009 at 10:20 amI am not sure if this is what you’re talking about but my neihbor’s son was hired by the South Y under the summer stimulus program. Maybe that’s a different program than the one you’re talking about but I do know that he has a summer job because of it.
Hi Jered,
August 26th, 2009 at 12:42 pmThe info I was looking at is available at the below address.
http://yoursourceblade.com/stimulus/search.asp
This is a list of Ohio projects requesting fedral stimulus funding. There is a huge diversity of organizations requesting funding for a variety of projects ranging from daycare to parking garages. Whether or not the Y is receiving any federal stimulus money- or can for that matter- I honestly do not know. I just did not see their organization listed, but there are several other non-profits requesting assistance.
Lulu,
I don’t know if the Y is “thumbing noses” or not, but certainly raised the bar a bit by taking the popular programs (gymnastics etc.) to the suburbs.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:53 pmSeems their objective is 900,ooo$ for 500 3yr memberships. Hopefully we can come up with a more fair solution, or have the attractive programs in place.
bill
Notice,
Members of the Coalition of Concerned Citizens were informed today that members of the national media will be present at the Rally this afternoon. Plan on being there! Support Toledo, the YMCA and the citizens who are speaking on your behalf.
You can also follow this on:
http://twitter.com/YmembersUnite
Regards,
Gary
August 26th, 2009 at 3:11 pmBill:
I was under the impression that the city-wide gymnastics and swim teams were brought to the South branch years ago because the community could not support the building with membership revenue alone and it was intended to be a temporary fix that had to continue to bail out the building’s lack of community support. All that and that branch still loses $30,000 per month according to the Blade.
Why would anyone want to waste $900k on that place when $900k would go a long way towards building a new facility? I would rather see Mr. Suter and the rest of the “Concerned Coalition” rally behind a fundraising effort to build a new facility similar to what’s being build in West Toledo. Let Cedar Creek spend Perrysburg money to overhaul the Woodsdale Park building and lets use our money to build an up-to-date facility.
If the “Community Coalition” announced it was raising funds for a new building I’d be one of the first in line to write a check. But parading and rallying for an old worn-out building during an election year is a waste of time and money.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:21 pmI have to say, I find it flat out comical that people are talking about a building that is barely 50 years old as obsolete. I grew in a city with neighborhoods where you would have been hard pressed to find a building less than 50 yrs old, and quite a few over 100 yrs old. These buildings were maintained and updated as needed and still remain. I loved these buildings and still do – since they are all still there. All housed small businesses with in walking distance of several hundred people. these buildings are still there, still beautiful, and still house small businesses though now resturaunts and boutiques rather than the family run butcher, green grocer, etc. Nonetheless, the are active, local, and thriving. The only thing that is missing is strip malls and huge unsightly parking lots.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:35 pmWhy keep knocking down and rebuilding- seems like a waste of resources to me.
This is way off the point, but just wanted to put in my 2 cents.
Jared,
I don’t know all the specifics, and we dont even have the 900k anyhow yet. Is a significant part of the defecit in the sewer fines? how bout staff?
August 26th, 2009 at 3:50 pmRepair or replace doesn’t matter, but it is important to keep the facility available for non-denominational use, and not create a huge traffic footprint in this particular area.
Dear Fellow Toledoans,
August 26th, 2009 at 10:52 pmPlease don’t lose sight of the important facts at issue here.
1. The Y is not a Country Club which can do as it pleases with its revenues. It is a non profit which means it receives tax breaks and monies which we, in essence support. Many of us give directly from our paychecks to support The United Way and The YMCA. As such, any inkling of impropriety such as excessive, executive salaries can not be allowed. Therefore as Lopez and others have called for, OPEN THE BOOKS!
2. The Y is not a Country Club – the mission is to serve. Its mission does not say in fine print, to serve only those in better neighborhoods.
3. This hanging question of impropriety will have a negative effect on The Greater YMCA of Toledo. Y members and charitable contributors (look at your pay stub- you probably give too) are now questioning their memberships and/ or charitable contributions.
Robin
Somethings need to be cleared up here which many of you don’t understand. The Y receives “Grant” money from the government, and as a requirement to those grants they have to fulfill the requirements of said grants, which involves completing a task and reporting out on said task. Once the Y fulfills the Grants requirements, they are done in their responsibility to the public concerning the dollars they receive.
That is how it works, you don’t like it, too bad, take it up with the ones sending the grants out. The Y has no responsibility to open their books up to the public, none what so ever. It’s great Lopez has offered to help with the books at the Y, but what if I don’t like what Lopez and her team is doing, do I have the right to see their books. How about the books of every not for profit out there?
There are laws and regulations that all not for profits have to follow, and as long as they follow those guidelines their responsibility to the public ends there.
August 27th, 2009 at 9:22 amI don’t think the Y acts much different as far as transparency, compensation practices or board governance. I think the leaders of this effort to hurt and discredit the Y and individuals are simply pawns of Blade’s owner….
August 27th, 2009 at 10:32 amHey Bill, What are your solutions. I haven’t heard anyone coming up with any yet.
Coalition do you honestly think the blade cares whether the south ymca stays open? The minute this story loses its luster you will be sitting out in the parking lot by yourselves.You all are pawns of the blade and every mayoral candidate who is now using this as a platform for their campaign. Can you really be that blind. What about all the children in the inner city that will be hurt because of the loss of the eli program, why aren’t you in Columbus protesting that? Why isn’t our senator down in columbus holding up signs? Cooper congrats you are the new Joe the Plumber. It’s funny that were yet to hear a solution from the coalition, Is it because you guys don’t have one or is it because your puppet master knows he will sell more papers if he can continue to instigate the fight. The Y has helped more individuals this month then you all will help in your entire life, enjoy the publicity while it last because your only one event away from being in the SECOND NEWS!!
August 27th, 2009 at 12:32 pmI’d like to hear solutions for the South end neighborhood rather than them talking about so called facts. I was raised you have a problem, before you take it someone, you should have a solution.
August 27th, 2009 at 2:03 pmI am NOT a fan of The Blade! That newspaper has been overtly anti-teacher for all of my years of teaching. Well…not exactly the teachers but the teachers’ union. Even though I think The Blade has done a service in exposing many matters over the years. So has the City Paper, Freepress, and Soujouner Truth. That is one of the puposes of constitutionaly guarenteed FREE PRESS!
My upset over the Y closing is personal to me in a way that is unique. I have run a nonprofit for over 12 years. I, and the many volunteers that make our organization successful, have worked hard day in and day out to solicit funds through donations, grants, and other funding. We have worked with many local nonprofits, including the Y, over the years. I can’t believe that ANY of those organizations, other than the Y, would pay ANY employee such and outlandish salary as that received by Mr. Alexander. Leasing a Hummer–I am dumbstruck!
The Y seems to be operating under the same financial system that led to big business and financial institutions rewarding themselves while they crashed and burned.
As an aside, someone I know well works for a person who currently sits on Obama’s cabinent. That cabinent person makes $75,000 LESS than Mr. Alexander!!! I know that salary is not tied to a job’s importance to our society as a whole, but give me a break!!!
I don’t mean to sound bitter, but I get really tired of hearing about fabulous salaries and giant perks —-especially when I am helping to foot the bill. I love the Y, but it better face up to the importance of coming clean with finances!!!
August 27th, 2009 at 3:13 pmHi Doug,
You may or may not be right about the length of legal responsibility the Y owes the public. You sir, are not right about the length of moral and community responsibility to which the Y owes its community.
Either way the community should check their charitable contributions; which are located on one’s pay stub.
All the Best
Robin Chomsky
August 27th, 2009 at 3:38 pmMay I suggest everyone just take a nice deep breath and cool down. Issues like this often become contentious but they do not have to.
You can question actions and results but I don’t believe anyone on either side of this debate has anything but the best intentions.
The YMCA exists to serve citizens. They compete against “for profit” industry in some areas, and work with public entities in others. They work closely with religious associations to maximize their good works. Bob Alexander has done a wonderful job in that regard.
Cooper, Matt and others are working in their spare time and off hours, sometimes taking time out of their paying jobs and family time to do what they feel is best for their neighborhood and community. For that they should be applauded.
Focus on those intentions of both sides and see the good they do. At the same time, both sides need to examine the logs in their eyes before they talk about the dust in their neighbors. (Matthew 7:3) Stick to the issue at hand which is about a facility and a community – nothing else.
I honestly believe this should be left to the Y and the area residents until an alternate solution is presented. In the meantime everyone else (including politicians) should back off. They only serve to fan the smoldering ashes.
August 27th, 2009 at 3:55 pmFrom what I’ve read the board set’s the ceo’s salary not Robert Alexander, and any of you who say you would turn down that salary because it is a non profit organization are either lying or stupid, And if I read correctly he leased a hummer H3 because the transmission was made here in toledo, That’s like a $20,000 dollar car oh my goodness! It’s not like he built a $10,000 shower in his office. But enough of the smear campaign, I’m still waiting on the solution.
August 27th, 2009 at 3:59 pmLisa – an H3 is like 30-40K! More than my last two NEW cars combined.
August 27th, 2009 at 4:16 pmI’m with you Bob Densic. Let the Y and the neighborhood work this out. They will I’m sure of it. The politicians are looking for votes, and I’m sure not going to vote for anyone who is going to waste my tax dollars holding signs and attending rallies for the South Y rather than working on the very important issues that we have here in Toledo. Issues that affect a lot more people than a handful of people upset about the closing of one small sagging Y. I am a Y member and I would and do drive to different Y’s depending on what is being offered.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:43 pmSensorG….what should he drive?
Lisa…I too am waiting to hear solutions from the critics.
…”waiting to hear solutions from the critics”….
Definition of “critic” (thanks wiki);
….”The word critic comes from the Greek κριτικός (kritikós), “able to discern”, which in turn derives from the word κριτής (krités), meaning a person who offers reasoned judgment or analysis, value judgment, interpretation, or observation. “…
By definition, being a critic has little to do with solutions, it has to do with being able to see what the problems are (and speaking out).
Even though I’m in this mess all the way up to my big mouth, I strongly resist the notion that it is up to me, or a greater group of concerned YMCA/community member to single handedly create THE all encompassing solution for it.
The corporate YMCA has literally dozens of highly paid staff (six figures?) who’s job is “solutions”.
What we want is for them to listen, consider, and enact solutions that include the YMCA and community members input and needs.
We then intend to join in/get behind and push.
A first order of business is to get this BS mess corporate YMCA has created out of the way, and get back to a YMCA people can trust to do the right thing with their membership and tax $.
We then want get to an open forum for Y and community members as soon as possible.
A forum for asking civil honest questions, getting civil honest answers, and giving input on what is needed and what can be successful.
…”politicians are looking for votes”…” waste my tax dollars holding signs and attending rallies for the South Y”…
Obviously this is all taking place in a political atmosphere; but remember, the YMCA had the Mayor and three councilmen in their pocket before they could even be bothered to tell their the members what was coming.
I do think it is very relevant that public officials sworn to oversee tax dollars have knowledge of how those tax dollars are being spent by organizations receiving them.
Especially a not for profit organization such as the YMCA that is rewarding it’s top level of employees so lavishly while cutting services.
Especially an organization such as the YMCA which has people asking credible questions about travel and expense account abuse.
Especially an organization such as the YMCA that has shown so little willingness to listen to, let alone consider the community it purports to serve.
If there is nothing to hide, prove it and regain everyones trust.
..”what should he drive?”…
At $298,000 a year, he should be driving his own car.
I do, and so do most people.
Cooper Suter
August 27th, 2009 at 10:39 pmCoooper – I guess I misunderstood. Of course I read the Blade so it’s HIGHLY possible but I thought the Y had made an appointment to sit down and settle the issues?
But then I see athe adversarial post above from you. Has the meeting fallen through?
I hope not!
August 27th, 2009 at 11:38 pm….”the adversarial post above from you”…
Sorry if the tone was severe, it was late (for me).
No firm meeting dates as of now.
Partly because both sides are taking a breather/cooling off.
Cooper Suter
August 28th, 2009 at 6:59 amHow can two sides come together to work something out when the stance as posted above by Cooper is so scathing. I’m not near as eloquent as he in my writing nor am I smart enough to quote greek vocabulary, but rather I am just an ordinary person asking what I would consider honest questions that arise for me out of the controversy surrounding the YMCA.
As the media has sited, the YMCA has tried to come up with solutions that have been shot down by the neighborhood group. So,if the terms are to be dicatated by the group then I would think the neighbors have a responsibility to propose counter solutions.
I don’t believe that it has been reported that the Y has had any abuse in any of it’s financial dealings, but rather that they were not interested in the demand to turn over all of their “books”. To take the leap that something is underhanded adds fuel to the controversy and does not show a willingness to be responsive to “getting civil honest answers”. It is laughable to think the Y has any politicians in their pocket, if what I read is correct (which is doubtful, it becomes difficult to discern what is fact and what is fiction.
I can only hope that the issue of the South Y staying open is not lost in this personal vendetta against the Y and it’s leaders. I do not believe that they go hand-in-hand as has been suggested.
I know some of the people on the board and they are some of the most committed, upstanding citizen’s in Toledo. To accuse the Y of any misdeed is accussing them of a job not well done, and I for one do not believe that those on the board have done anything other than an exemplary job of keeping the Y committed to the values it has shared with the community for years.
The media has reported that the YMCA has offered a solution to the neighbors to keep the Y open and it has been rejected. So Cooper, I would suggest the ball becomes in the court of the neighbor’s to propose their own solution.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:17 amIt seems that our instinct as a community may be to solve the Y problems ourselves. Cooper makes a good point; let the highly qualified and highly paid Y execs solve the problems which they in essence created. I would hope they would do so with the input and support of the community.
Robin Chomsky
August 28th, 2009 at 9:15 amWell we members are paying for both of the Alexander’s lease vehicles, gas and whatever else comes along. Mrs Alexander is AKA Mrs D…. another behind the scenes fact that they are husband and wife. I suspect this was done so people dont think that they are married and double dipping. Look at it this way, one house.. two leased cars and its because WE members are paying for it.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:22 amLulu,
…”How can two sides come together to work something out when the stance… by Cooper is so scathing?”…
).
Fair enough statement, I apologize again for my tone if it was perceived as another thrown down. (and again blame it on the hour I was writing it at
…”issue of the South Y… not lost in this personal vendetta…do not believe that they go hand-in-hand”…
Issues with leadership and money have come up from our groups side in the context of trust in the Y’s leadership, both to the mission statement and their fiduciary responsibilities with OUR money.
I don’t think it is unfair to expect open trustable communication with an organization your giving your money and time to support.
…”people on the board …… most committed, upstanding citizen’s in Toledo”…
I’ve only met a few board members, and only since this all started.
There are a couple in particular that I think your description fits well.
…”neighbor’s to propose their own solution”…
If we could just change the word “solution” to “solutions” and tack on ” at an open public forum with YMCA leadership” I think we have the beginnings of a “practical and sustainable” new south branch YMCA.
Lulu,
We seem to be covering old ground here, why don’t you let me buy you a beer sometime and we could civilly debate face to face?
Cooper Suter
August 28th, 2009 at 11:08 amHi Whattofunk
I’m wondering where are you getting your information? Do you know the things you are saying to be true or are you making assumptions?
August 28th, 2009 at 11:10 amYou want to “bring it on” then back it up.
I’m a member and know that my membership pays for the facilities I use and yes…..YMCA staff salaries all 2,000 of them!
Between the Husband and Wife of the Y they get close to $1000 in monies for vehicle allowance… that is just for starters…
It has been a known process but when they decided to pull the rug from the south Y members, I lost it. Here they Y is suppose to be a support arm for the community, and thousands of people give, and if they want to let the south Y go to the dumps, then I be dammed if they get to keep not only one but two vehicles… at our expense.. what about the kid programs… the south Y took in a lot of kids…
So you pay a membership fee,”"” know that my membership pays for the facilities”"”… So that statement is not correct! Not only does it pay for the facilities but for at least 4 vehicles that I know of… that well if the person is making more than 50K don’t need a Y vehicle!!
August 28th, 2009 at 2:21 pmSo are you getting tired of me already Cooper? Yes, it does seem to be tired old ground that is being covered. And what once started out as a fight to save the YMCA has turned into a smear campaign against the Y, so sad.
August 28th, 2009 at 2:58 pmI was looking in public court records and did not find anything to suggest that the Y family had any legal problems, but when looking up those that tout doing the “right” thing for the community I happened upon much. I would say those neighborhood people had better make sure that their doorsteps are brushed off a little better. Yet I don’t see the Blade reporting personally on the individuals from the neighborhood, wonder why that is? Sounds like a good story to me.
About that beer Cooper…..nope!
What we have here is the Y’s “failure to communicate”. Not only that but the Y’s failure to see our community as one that care’s, and will fight for something important. Neighborhoods all over Toledo are waking up and coming together as a whole to fight for the survival of their homes and parks and vital institutions. Sometimes it takes only a few coming together to point out a mistake (or injustice). At other times it takes a few HUNDRED before communucation is possible.
August 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pmSolutions?
Lets put everything on the table. Show us what has been done to keep the South Branch viable. Then maybe we can show how we can help. Lets not forget what the “C” stands for in “YMCA” and treat each other accordingly.
The is “C” is for “C-note” right?
August 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pmWhattofunk:
If you’re not happy then go down the street to Urban Active, or buy your own in-home gym. That’s the power you have as a paying member, if you don’t like what the YMCA is spending “your” membership dollars on, then take them elsewhere. Just make sure you spend the same amount of scrutiny there, asking why they have 120 flat screen TVs when 115 would suffice. Make sure you do your due diligence when you go to the Toledo Zoo (another non-profit, “membership” entity). Do they really “need” 32,000 lights for their “Lights Before Christmas” display? Wouldn’t it be more fiscally sound to only have 30,000?
Why do politicians and private citizens feel the need to meddle in another private company’s legal business dealings? Now there’s a “task force” forming? Wow. What’s next, the County commissioner’s office will make us all seek their approval to spend $.50 at the vending machine? Will they be asking all of us to “open our books” before we’re allowed to buy gas? Where does the slippery-slope stop?
August 28th, 2009 at 4:17 pmLulu,
Why would you being looking in in the public court records for legal problems with the Y’s family leadership. We all know that their is nothing to be found there… Your trying to say that you know the facts when we are all still waiting for them to come out??? I doubt your opinion considering the Y’s refusal to disclose their spending.
But that is besides the point. Do you want to know why the Blade is not gong to do background searches on all of us (like you did)… Because we are the PEOPLE and this is our neighborhood and all we are trying to do is defend our resources as a community, why do we deserve to be attacked? What is your motivation (or malfunction) to discredit some one from my neighborhood who is trying to defend what we as a neighborhood need to keep. If you think your petty and subtle accusations are going to convince us otherwise than you are WRONG. It does not matter what you found in the public records none of us are interested in that. All we want is to see the Y stay. Notice how even Alexander has kept his petty attacks to organizations like the blade and people like Theresa Fedor. The politics are between all of them and now you, but not us. Like a broken record I will say it again all we want is to see the Y stay.
Thank you,
August 28th, 2009 at 6:03 pmNathan James Rawlins.
it seems pretty simple to me… The south y needs memberships to stay open. so why not help sell membership to the south y in order to do so. if a business doesn’t have money to stay open, then it closes. why is this so different?
I read a lot about the high paying salaries of top executives. Good for you I say. i bet these are talented individuals who put their family on hold and work 24/7, maybe even on vacation! Toledo has been pegged as a brain drain city. well, you wonder why?! you have political events like this one that make toledo look stupid. who would want to stay or come to toledo? In my opinion stop player hatin all you jealous individuals out there.
so what if an executive make over 100k a year, or even 200k. anybody would love to make that kind of money in toledo. where is the article comparing salaries of top execs in toledo? where would mr. alexander stand then. i doubt he would be on top then. anybody think of that?
so what if there is a direct link to family members that work for the Y. you think the y is the only organization that has family members that work for the same company? Ever think that this may be positive!
this has gotten way out of control in my opinion. Let the YMCA and the Board make decision thats best for the Y not four individual that are pawns in the blade’s vendetta against the y.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:23 pmWell its obvious who the true southenders actually are. The truth is that Alexander is a public servant who has failed to do his job. The man has also displayed unnecessary hostility on two seperate occasions. So why are you trying to glorify him. Though his salary is hardly the issue, he seems to be chasing it out to the subarbs. The YMCA is a resource that will not only produce productive citizens, but attract new people to our niegborhood as well as keeping our long standing residents. So this brain drain you speak of is something you seem to be encouraging. Why?
What kind of person do you think would be jealous of that? Some one who glorifies high salaries and no work ethic i geuss. Some one like Alexander himself, but not a true southender. We ARE getting played and we won’t stand for it. But as far as hating goes, well I am a Christian so I will not hate or use daft, trendy, and inappropriate slogans. And I certainly don’t admire high salaries or material possessions.
And further more, what is the relavance of comparing his salary with that of executives in other businesses? The YMCA has for too long depended upon private and public donations to look the other way when they pack up and leave. We seem to have state senators on our side the states money has a possibility of returning if we hold them to it. And as well the membership drive proposed by the YMCA would have conveniently allowed them to put the blame back on us the community, the southend. I am sorry but please get with the picture ’southender’ we can’t allow their greed to take what we need as a community. The YMCA is now truly on the brink of failing our community and nothing can justify that.
And finally, as a long supporter of Unions and of hard work myself and many of the people close to me without hesitation banned the blade for a rather long time. And until recently refused to even read it. So, my friend we are no ones pawn. We are simply trying to do what is right and we invite any one to help us. Though their politics don’t really help we won’t exclude anyone from doing their part for our south end community. ‘Southender’ if you are from our neighborhood than why won’t you stick up for it?
Thank you,
August 29th, 2009 at 1:21 amNathan Rawlins
On the other hand, lets just stick with the actual relevant discussions. This is about the YMCA and the void that would be left in our community if it were to go.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:27 amNathan, as someone who was born in the South End and has lived a good portion of my life in the South End, I don’t think you can determine someone’s “southendness” based on their thoughts on the South Toledo YMCA.
Quite a few of my neighbors can’t afford a Y membership, have never had Y memberships and could really care less about the Y – if the building closed tomorrow it would have no impact on their lives. That does not make them any less South Enders than those who use the Y or want to save the Y. There is not some South End litmus test that includes the YMCA. Realistically if the South End did utilize the Y in great numbers, it’s membership numbers would be higher considering how many of us there are. The No Y’s out number the Yes Y’s from a pure resident to membership ratio.
The whole Alexander salary issue has never been properly placed in context. To the average South Ender? It’s high, to the average non-profit CEO/President? It’s not…
August 29th, 2009 at 1:32 amLisaRenee,
So then why are you even arguing with us? Just keep on doing nothing and it will probably go away. But why would you discourage us? I am sorry, do you not like seeing your fellow southenders stick up for their community? To speak not on behalf of you but on behalf of our needed resources?
Nathan
August 29th, 2009 at 1:59 amWth all due respect Lisa Renee, the compensation of Mr. Alexander is unreasonable compared to others in the non-profit sector. When Bill Kitson makes 1/2 of what Mr. Alexander makes running the United Way we are right to call into question salary. When long standing, successful Community Development Directors make 1/3 of Mr. Alexander we are right to call into question compensation.
The issue of compensation(salares/perks/ benefits) at the Greater Toledo YMCA/ JCC needs to be framed in a larger context. There is a level of reasonableness that is currently not being met. When services are cut to the community, salaries/ benefits are maintained, raises are given in recent previous years, and tax dollars are used within the budget, the Community HAS to call into question compensation. In my opinion, everything within the budget was not carefully considered before the closing of the South Branch was announced to balance the budget. Was it timing? Maybe. Was the closing the low hanging fruit? Maybe. What other cuts have been made? We do not know.
It is not as cut and dry as comparing compentation against one’s peers in an industry. Compensation also needs to be looked within one’s Community. Toledo is still a blue collar, working man’s town. We have faced increased foreclosure, job loss, and a weak economy. I am sure, the average everyday Toledoan or suburban Toledoan feels the compensation is unreasonable. The Mayor of Toledo makes less than the Greater Toledo YMCA/JCC Director. Who has more impact on the Community positive or negative? (I do not make this comment to discuss past, the current or future Mayors, rather in the larger context of the position of Mayor of Toledo.)
In difficult times, the Community looks to the public and non-profit sector to step in where the private sector can or will not. The closing of the South Branch is a prime example. There are people outraged at the closing because the Mission of the YMCA/ JCC becomes more important when times get tough. Why is a new Boys and Girls Club located at Sherman School in North Toledo? Because this is an area in transtion and the Board of Trustees and Administration believe that they CAN make an impact (Mission). I would argue that the Greater Toledo YMCA/JCC Board of Trustees need to refocus itself on it’s Mission and role within this Community.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:31 amBut alas it’s not just about a YMCA branch closing now is it. Somehow (and I wonder how)it has morphed into a attack on a whole organization whose good works, and community involvement have been well noted for years. The YMCA has done wonderful things in South Toledo for years, supported this community, fed hungry kids, held fairs, scholarshiped those who could not afford memberships and child care. Yet, those who live in the neighborhood are willing to attack the very same organization that has brought them such good will and then does not trust that just because a building is closing that they will continue to do the same things they always have for this neighborhood. That this has gotten out of hand is certainly not speculation. Those that are out for blood at the Y and Alexander’s expense are sitting back laughing out loud at how they have disrupted the lives of seemingly ordinary people, including the Alexander’s. Still as more and more politician’s jump on the bandwagon (it is an election year) what once was to save a building has become a witch hunt with a handful of neighbor’s playing into it for the “best of their community”.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:54 amYes I have looked into the background of the “players” and if one is going to go on the attack of some, they better expect that it is going to come back to them eventually. I will not apologize for this. We are the PEOPLE and that includes me, the Alexander’s, and all of us who are paying our taxes. Our rights and diginities are only but the same as those who fuel the fires.
Nathan, I’m not arguing with you – I’m pointing out why some people who come to my blog may not agree with you and pointing out as a South Ender there is no requirement that you have to support the Y and not supporting the Y does not question your “southendness” in my book.
Matthew, with equal respect back, Alexander’s salary is not the highest in this area and in that arena of CEO/President his salary is not considered high. That was my point. I’ve spent hours researching IRS 990’s – starting back during the Connecting Point saga so I’m pretty confident that I’m being very factually correct.
If Alexander were to go tomorrow, it’s very unlikely that the Board would offer a substantially less salary to the next person. I realize the salary issue became a popular attention point, but that’s not the reason why the ELI program was cut and that’s not why the gymnastic program was moved. It’s also not the reason money was not put into renovations at the South Toledo branch.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:51 amI am not concerned with salary but what I am concerned about is car lease fees. It appears there is at least $1600 a month, which is almost 20K a year. 12K of that is coming from the Alexanders. They are married, live in the same house, why aren’t they commuting? Why do they both have vehicles that are fully loaded? For their convenience of course, this is only a start of lavish spending espically for a community charitable organization.. This is not people working for a for profit company.
So Mr Alexander is not doing all he can to help the community.. Not by a long shot, and for him to take shots at a US Senator is and should be grounds for dismissal!
August 29th, 2009 at 11:03 amLulu, going after private citizens speaking out is not very different from what is being done by the Blade – it’s selective targeting to try to cloud the over all facts and it is done to attempt to make people afraid to speak up or to “punish” them for taking a different position.
I don’t support that and while you are certainly welcome to look up public record information on anyone, since it is public record information. It’s not relevant to the topic here and I have had people try to shop me the information you are referencing when this first started. It wasn’t relevant then and it’s not relevant now, at least not on my blog.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:07 amIn the arena of for profit corporations, the compensation at the Greater Toledo YMCA/ JCC is not high. But the YMCA/ JCC is not the for profit arena. It is in the non-profit arena. I would expect that the compensation would be scaled commensuratly backwards if Mr. Alexander were to be replaced. That is not my only issue. It has become an issue for many in the Community because the appearant unreasonableness of the compensation.
“that’s not why the gymnastic program was moved. It’s also not the reason money was not put into renovations at the South Toledo branch.”
I am a Building and Grounds Committee Member at the South Branch. I have worked for 18 months to try to see why the money was not put into renovations and was always told that there was (is) a new building planned. I am still working to facilitate a new building, yet will openly question the committment by the Corporate Office and Board of Trustees to see this though. A membership drive without a building plan is worthless. I have said it the Board and Corporate Office will continuing to beat this drum. What are we trying to sell? A beat up obsolete building with no services. Who will buy that? I certainly will question my continuation to buy, and I am a Max member.
Do many people in the Community know the policy on renovation expenditures at the Greater Toledo YMCA/ JCC? I do. Anything expense over $1,500 has to be approved by the Coporate Office. It is tough to blame the local Advisory Board or the Committees when this policy is in place. We do not even get an amount of money each year to plan for capital improvements. There is very little that can be done for less than $1,500 on a 50+ year old building.
Do people know that 10 days prior to the closing announcement, myself, staff and South Branch Advisory Board Members were planning a Volunteer day to re-roof the garage, improve the garage doors and clean the grounds? 10 days prior to the closure we met and were told nothing of this plan to close. The ELI funding was already eliminated by then. Do people realize that the Building and Grounds Committee has been activly looking at ways to have repairs and improvements done at the South Branch using staff and taking it out of the operating budget because would could not get money from the Coporate Office to do major repairs. The roof got fixed, the ceiling tiles in the fitness center recently got replaced, the womens locker room was being painted. Small steps…We were (are) trying inspite of the actions of the Corporate Office.
As far as gymnastics goes, the GYMCATS have been in South Toledo for 20+ years. When Perrysburg set up the Sports Zone, I asked at that time if this was a pre-cursor to moving gymnastic out of the South Branch and was told no, but “the surveys do show that Perrysburg wants better gymnastics.” I took the YMCA at their word that they were not moving. I will question this thinking a little more in the future.
The impact on South Toledo of the gymnastics moving should be cause for concern for the City and County. GYMCATS hosts gymnastic events that draw families from all over the region. These families typically stayed in hotels close to the South Branch, in Toledo. They ate dinner in Downtown or South Toledo. The families that dropped their children off for practice shopped in South Toledo because they could not get too far from the facility to pick their children up after practice. South Toledo is Lucas County. Sales tax, hotel motel tax, employment tax stay in Lucas County. The Sports Zone is in Perryburg, Wood County. All these dollars, whether large or small are now moved to Wood County. More than likely, the patrons of the gymnastic events will stay at hotels in Levis Commons, eat at Levis Commons, shop at Levis Commons.
The Community needs to continue to ask more questions and not be satisfied with non-specific answers. While the economic impact on Toledo/ Lucas County of the gymnastic move may be small, many small actions such as this add up quickly.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:30 amLisa,
Yes you are right what qualifies you to be a southender is simply living on the south end of Toledo. I apologize for being confrontational with you. But I will continue to show my support for the YMCA facility staying open and woodsdale park remaining whole.
Thank you,
August 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pmNathan
Matthew, I am aware of what you wrote but I’m sure others are not so what you shared is important. When the Governor eliminated ELI – was that really “the reason” or was it “the excuse” depends on who you talk to.
Nathan, I’ve made it a point to continually say I understand and support those in my neighborhood who are trying to save the Y, I’ve invested quite a bit of time on this blog on this topic as well for that reason but I also support those in my neighborhood who feel differently. Turning us against each other and/or focusing on one or two people on either side isn’t going to accomplish much long term.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pmAt the end of each day, the problem still remains the same: South Y needs memberships. if the community wants to have a ymca in their neighborhood, then go support it. dragging it through the mud is not a show of support in my book. clearly there are not enough individuals that have or can afford a membership in the south end.
you complain now that the branch is/was going to close, but will you complain when the brand new branch is/going to be built on the campus of UT?
I am for the ymca, am a max member and will continue to use the many branches the ymca has to offer. They do more good for this community than any other organization i know. Can you name one organization that does more outreach than the ymca, has the same or equilevelant number of locations or budget size in Toledo? if so, tell me what the perks/salary of the ceo are and how many years experience he/she has.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:43 pmLet me start by stating that; I have joined with the Coalition of Concerned Citizens and YMCA Members. I have been involved with the effort to keep the South Branch Y open from the beginning. At that time it was me, my son, four of his friends, Jim Moody, and a press conference. Since then, I found that there were many, many others that felt the same way that we did. From a simple man in the next neighborhood over from me, to a State Senator,(and a variety of people from all walks of life in between), we have been trying to get the YMCA of Greater Toledo to TALK to us. I believe this to be a strong message to the leadership at the Y, that maybe they misjudged this situation. And I will hold hope that they reconsider. I have reason to believe that something positive will come from all of this. This community came together to save a precious and vital resource to Toledo. I look forward to seeing a meeting between all those concerned.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:07 amLisa Renee,
August 30th, 2009 at 11:30 amSo sorry to have offended you! I too am passionate about the YMCA. I felt it was important to “bring out” the other side of the argument as things turned into a personal attack on one family and a whole organization. Unfortunately, this is not just about a Y branch closing but of discrediting a whole organization and those that lead this organization. I think this is sad and unfair. At this point I can’t see these (the Y) people sticking up for themselves as they are in a no win situation. While I am a Y member and do know some of the players, I don’t know them well, just enough to know the passion the Y has about our community.
I’m not sure what you meant about being “shopped” for information but the only shopping I’ve been doing lately is for shoes (my one true passion)
I appreciated your commentary on salaries and the amount of effort to retrieve all of that information.
I’m not offended, so I’m sorry if you got that impression. I’m trying to take a middle position so that all sides are treated as fairly as possible here as well as share some of the views I’ve heard from those who can’t share their thoughts.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pmLulu, I know personally some of the peeps at the Y, so imagine my jaw dropping when I see the tv and Mr Alexander has gone off the deep end. Cause I know the people that work for the Y wouldn’t even come close to what he has done, so it upsets me when he sets the tone for everyone else. In fact he pulled a carty, but the damage caused by it is far greater than what Carty caused, Those words he spoke at the conference, well if he exercised them in his own situation he could have saved the Y 10’s of thousands of dollars.
People don’t like shocking news, and most don’t like change. People like communication, and clearly there was a lack of in the start of this whole mess. Mr Alexander seems to imply that we are the only Y organization in the state of Ohio, well news flash we are not, and there are several others that GOT the grant canceled, but you don’t hear any foul words out of their Agency Head!
August 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmYou also didn’t see any media coverage as to the closings or how the community was going to be impacted in the same manner that happened here either.
Context is always important…
August 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pmI don’t believe that a new YMCA will ever be built in the South end if they close the present one. As far4 as the one at MCO campus, it is not friendly to families or kids and does not have swimming.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pmLisa I checked… and as far as I can see is that Cleveland adjusted the hours for the summer…
Dayton has no info..
Columbus has no info either…
August 30th, 2009 at 4:58 pmI meant as far as all of the places that provided ELI – there were quite a few in the entire State as well as locally here in Toledo complete list. There has been no media attention on any of that. As an example, the East Toledo Family Center Kids Kare program still shows ELI — they haven’t even updated their website to indicate the program has been eliminated.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:12 pmLulu said- “I too am passionate about the YMCA. I felt it was important to “bring out” the other side of the argument as things turned into a personal attack on one family and a whole organization. Unfortunately, this is not just about a Y branch closing but of discrediting a whole organization and those that lead this organization. I think this is sad and unfair. At this point I can’t see these (the Y) people sticking up for themselves as they are in a no win situation. While I am a Y member and do know some of the players, I don’t know them well, just enough to know the passion the Y has about our community.”
Lulu- If that is your name? Come out from behind your singular name and be accountable. You can easily throw stones at those of us who want to make things better in OUR Community, yet will not reveal yourself. I am sure you looked me up and did not find anything on the Clerk of Courts web site. Where else have you looked? You can search the Blade archives and will see that I have a committment to the Community. We can not be so sure about you as you are hiding. It is clear you are NOT a South Toledoan and do not use the South Branch. If there is a passion at the Corporate Office and Board about the Community as you say, there would be new YMCA branches in places in this Community other than the suburbs and alternatives to closure of the South Branch would have been enacted. The YMCA/ JCC would be following their Mission!
If the Greater Toledo YMCA/ JCC wants to promote nepotism, cease maintaining appearantly underperforming branches in spite of their Mission, provide unreasonable executive compensation and refuse to open all their books to public scrutny, then they should give up their 501(c)3 tax exempt status, quit taking tax dollars, property tax abatements, and become a private entity. They can then operate as the private sector does and no one (other than shareholders) can question their behavior.
The Board of Trustees and Executive Office need to refocus themselves to determine what the Greater Toledo YMCA/JCC wants to be. What is the Mission? It is almost like the organizaton has “Founders Syndrome.” For many years the organization has grown, met its goals, provided for staff and clients with out question, and when things got hard they took the easy way out (closing the South Branch). The Corporate Office is now is taken aback because they are questioned about what they do or do not do for the Community. If the Community is guily of anything it is not questioning things sooner. We took them at face value, you can be sure we won’t again. There is a reason that talented persons are on Boards like the YMCA/ JCC. This is the time when the Board needs to step in to lead the organization and do the right thing for the Community.
It is my hope that we can cease making this discussion a personal attack against those of us for maintaining a community asset while alternative plans are developed and fiscal accountability versus those seeking to maintain status quo.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:08 pmGood Morning all!
August 31st, 2009 at 9:21 amI will respond Mr. Sutter to your inquiry as to my name…Lulu. It is indeed my name, a nickname that those who know and love me recognize. I do not feel it prudent to use my full given name as I don’t need or care for the noterity that others seek. However, this does not mean that I don’t have an opinion. Many who have commented on this blog are also using one name and in that spirit I continue to blog!
It occurred to me this morning that those of you who are trying to save a Y branch are actually making it harder to do so. Obviously money will have to be raised to do something with this branch and discrediting the Y and it’s leaders will make it much more difficult to do this. I would suggest that the people who are so passionate about this start a fundraising campaign to see if they can get financial commitments from the community. It certainly would be a great first step when discussing with the Y the possibility of keeping this branch.
I remain…..Lulu and for Mr. Sutter I will add….Lulu Ann.
I can not get any feedback on this idea, What am I not thinking of? Where does it fall short? Why don’t you all let me know.
The YMCA Alternative
The facility is to costly to run and many programs have left. Memberships new and old will likely follow those programs outside of our community. The YMCA, being a Christian organization, had the right idea to give that facility to the Christian following of Cedar Creek when they hit hard times. But, I propose that the facility should be given to the community and its local Churches. We could rename the facility, The Multi-Faith South Side Resource Center, and invite all local houses of God whether they be Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Hindu, or Buddhist to use the facility for its many advantages. We already have the Beverly Cluster, which my own Church belongs to. All local Churches could come together with this Resource Center connecting us all. It would not only be a symbol of our diversity, but a place for us to come together and live as one people.
How will we pay for it?
I can not speak on behalf of my Church or for that matter any Church on the south end of Toledo. But we should come together to at least discuss the possibility. What I propose is not a fund drive to pay for its continuing costs. I propose that any congregation that wants to participate, any individual who wants to help could just a give a little money in an effort to reduce the buildings costs. There are over 1000 parishioners in my church alone. I know for a fact that asking for ten dollars a few times a year from any/every person who is willing, is really not asking for much. These donations would go towards the effort of reaching sustainability for our Churches and the proposed Resource Center. The building uses to much energy and is becoming increasingly more expensive, well that is true for more than just the YMCA. Sooner or later we will all have to confront this issue for our Homes, Churches, Businesses, and other Community Centers why not start now.
- All donations from participating Churches would be split in half. Half to the resource center and half to the Church that took up the collection.
- Donations would probably not need to be more than ten dollars a person.
- This money would then be used to purchase such products as solar panels, solar heating systems, grey water recycling technology, and the application of LEED standards (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) in the renovation of our Churches and the proposed Resource Center.
- These products are not as costly as one would think, for the price of a new car (between $12,000 – $18,000) we could install a small and highly efficient windmill to supply a large portion of the buildings energy needs completely free. Most of these products are much more affordable than that, and all are generally easy to install. Solar panels are much, much cheaper and can be just as effective. They are available in different price and power ranges to suit our needs.
- Think there is nowhere to put a windmill, well look across the street (down Spencer Ave. across from the Arlington neighborhood) and you will see one of these in action. Given the cities permission there is more than enough room to install one for the old facility.
- There are many different kinds of products available that are designed to lower the cost of a buildings operations. With the proper application we could reduce the costs of our Churches and our Resource Center by up to 80%
- With Teresa Fedor and our other Senators on the communities side I am sure we can fight to get back some of that State funding that was lost due to a compromise in our State Senate. With this money we could restore the programs that were lost including daycare.
- For those in our Community who do not attend church but wish to have that facility as a resource, a private fundraiser could be taken up. And again, we need only a little bit of money from any one who is willing to help, which we know has the potential to add up to a lot of money that could go along way.
- Once the facility is restored and it’s operations returned, membership fees would also be put to a sustainable use. And it is reasonable to assume, with the buildings cost dramatically lowered that the fees could stay at the same discounted rate for all those in the 14 and 09 area code without the three year commitment.
- We could provide the necessary incentive for the businesses that provide these products to use our facility as a promotional tool for their market and product. Offering free advertising space and giving these new company’s the chance to help us.
- We could even volunteer our facility to test these new products for technological, market, and applicable research and development.
The facility would serve the same function that it does now exercise classes, daycare, swimming, gymnastics a range of different activities would all be offered. But it could provide many new things. The installation of a large, productive, and beautiful community garden would be cost effective and extremely productive. These gardens have proven themselves to be a catalyst for change and growth in different communities throughout the city of Toledo. Let us continue the growth of these kinds of resources.
Since we would have so many green alternative technologies on hand why not organize groups of all different ages and teach them about these technologies and techniques so they could be utilized in our city on a wider scale. With the added result of less energy usage for everyone and less pain for our wallets. More money for fun in a time when consumers and businesses are desperate for anything that mighty set off that economic spark we so desperately need. We could all come together and learn what we are going to have to do, large and small, to sustain the way of life we love so much. As well, The Multi-Faith South Side Resource Center could act as a representative to all of these different Assemblies and Churches that participate.
Given the communities approval and the participating Churches agreeing that they want to work together on this task, I am sure we will have no problem finding the right people for the job. I humbly ask the YMCA board of directors to consider this decision also.
-Nathan Rawlins.
August 31st, 2009 at 9:55 amI believe this to be a solution that can satisfy all parties involved in this debate. I stand behind it 100%. Please let me know what you think.
Thank you,
August 31st, 2009 at 10:17 amNathan Rawlins
Great editorial in the new Free Press,at least we have 1 unbiased paper in the city,and it doesn’t even cost 75 cents which by the way I wonder if any of the Block’s offered to take a pay cut before raising the price of the paper?
August 31st, 2009 at 10:49 amMr. Rawlings,
With all due respect, the one thing you are not thinking of is, come the second week in November, NONE of our local politicians will be fighting for this building in any capacity. At least 3 of the 4 Mayoral candidates will be out of the picture as well as the current mayor. The Blade will move on to other “news” items and winter-time rallies and snowy press-conferences will be fewer and farther between.
Also, why on earth would a business like the YMCA (or any business for that matter) give a building to an organization that intends to provide similar (competitive) services? McDonald’s doesn’t just give its locations to Burger King when they close.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:28 pmLisaRenee,
Thank you for bringing up a great point. If the campaign to fire Alexander succeeds, what does the community expect to happen?
1)The Y promotes its next CEO from within.
-No, that would mean “more of the same” to the “coalition”. So therefore the problem would still exist.
2) The YMCA posts the job and hire a new CEO for less money.
-Not likely since any good CEO would make comparable money to what his/her predecessor made. Plus any good candidates would evaluate the organization’s image in the community and thanks to the Blade and others, the YMCA has been publicly “spun” to look like a shady den of thieves in the night that stop just short of stealing candy from babies and pushing elderly people down to the ground.
Why would anyone of any level of talent accept a compensation package less than their predecessor in a community that has turned on the YMCA in a city with a reputation that is anti-business?
Either way it is a lose-lose situation for the loyal YMCA users, the community and all of NW Ohio.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:59 pmJared your right, how could you ever find someone competent for a mere $150,000 – $200,000? I’m sure there isn’t a qualified person who would work at “non-profit” Christian organization for such a lowly sum…
August 31st, 2009 at 2:31 pmAlso Jered – in the corporate “for profit” world many people are taking jobs that pay less than they did a few years ago… I’ve hired a few people in the last few years and no one asked what the last person made and frankly I offered less than the last person and I had no problem filling positions.
(I meant this to be one post with corrected name, but GCJ is acting up.)
August 31st, 2009 at 2:38 pmThey were just going to give the facility to Cedar Creek. And who would be competing with the Y there would be none around?
But, it is just my idea and since, I guess, no one who can do anything about it really cares than our communities resources are obviously not their concern. But, I still care and will continue too. Sorry to offend anyone who might have a real solution. And I am serious about that, I am sorry to all and I guess we as a community will have to look elsewhere for help.
Thank you and goodluck,
August 31st, 2009 at 2:49 pmNathan Rawlins
They were just going to give the facility to Cedar Creek. And who would be competing with the Y there would be none around?
But, it is just my idea and since, I guess, no one who can do anything about it really cares than our communities resources are obviously not their concern. But, I still care and will continue too. Sorry to offend anyone who might have a real solution. And I am serious about that, I am sorry to all and I guess we as a community will have to look elsewhere for help.
Thank you and goodluck,
August 31st, 2009 at 2:49 pmNathan Rawlins
SensorG:
Wow, was that sarcasm?
Sure, entry level and managerial positions are hiring for less but I’m sure you’ll agree that a 50% (or more) pay-cut would not happen at the Executive level and Alexander’s compensation is public knowledge. So I’m sure the applicants would be well aware of his compensation package unlike the “for profit” positions you’re hiring.
August 31st, 2009 at 3:00 pmNathan,
The Morse Center (just over a mile away) offers classes, the Summit YMCA (5 miles down the road) offers classes. Come to think about it all 9 (or so) YMCAs offer services similar to the ones youre proposing and if the YMCA did plan on building in South Toledo then they wouldn’t want their clientle going elsewhere for services.
According to the paper, they wer going to give the building to Cedar Creek Church with the agreement that the YMCA would still run Child Care and other programs at that location. Cedar Creek has the fundraising base to pour 2 million dollars into that location and this community, why not let them?
August 31st, 2009 at 3:16 pm“It is my hope that we can cease making this discussion a personal attack against those of us for maintaining a community asset while alternative plans are developed and fiscal accountability versus those seeking to maintain status quo.”
-Matthew Sutter
With all due respect Matthew, it is my hope that we can cease to make this discussion an issue for anyone other than paying YMCA Members and that those YMCA Members would vote with their membership dollars. If you are unhappy, please take your business to Urban Active or buy a bow-flex and an above ground pool. Otherwise dragging this issue on is just becoming tiresome. Rallying and complaining does nothing. Cancel your membership, then the YMCA will have to re-evaluate their position. Money talks louder than any newspaper, politician or “coalition”
August 31st, 2009 at 3:33 pmJered,
Who ever said anything that suggested we would prevent cedar creek from helping our community. They are free and welcome to start a church anywhere in this community (like the old sears building or the old farmer jack) and help us with this project. I was unaware they wanted to put that much money into the facility, thank you for letting me know. They are of course welcome to do so. And why would a not for profit organization care about competition, this is about what is best for the neighborhood and we need that resource. This is not about business.
This Blog is nothing but an ongoing argument; my attention from now on will be dedicated to something that actually has the potential to fix this problem. Not these politics. Thank you very much Lisarenee for making this available.
This is a Union Town and I am sure we can find someone who is friendly to organized neighborhoods. Friendly to neighbors who want to work together.
Thank you all for listening and for the ideas,
August 31st, 2009 at 5:39 pmNathan James Rawlins
Nathan, I think you put some time into your idea, I’m sorry I didn’t get a chance to e-mail you back last night. My primary concern with your suggestion would have been where the funding would have come to renovate the building. That is the one reason why if the YMCA building was going to be given to anyone Cedar Creek was not a bad suggestion, they were willing and able to invest money in the building.
August 31st, 2009 at 6:26 pmLulu said- I do not feel it prudent to use my full given name as I don’t need or care for the noterity that others seek…It occurred to me this morning that those of you who are trying to save a Y branch are actually making it harder to do so. Obviously money will have to be raised to do something with this branch and discrediting the Y and it’s leaders will make it much more difficult to do this. I would suggest that the people who are so passionate about this start a fundraising campaign to see if they can get financial commitments from the community…
If this were about noterity, I’d run for political office. It is about doing the right thing for my community. Clearly you do not live in my community and choose to take pot shots from the outside with no accoutability. This is one unfortunate consequence of the internet. The Coalition did not seek to discredit the YMCA/JCC, the Corporate Office did a fine job on their own. I am hopeful that the Coaliton and the Board of Trustees can move forward to a mutually agreeable positive solution to our similar problems. I stand by my comments about your singular name. Who or what are you hiding from?
Jered said- …it is my hope that we can cease to make this discussion an issue for anyone other than paying YMCA Members and that those YMCA Members would vote with their membership dollars. If you are unhappy, please take your business to Urban Active or buy a bow-flex and an above ground pool. Otherwise dragging this issue on is just becoming tiresome. Rallying and complaining does nothing. Cancel your membership, then the YMCA will have to re-evaluate their position. Money talks louder than any newspaper, politician or “coalition”
Cancelling my or anyone elses membership proves nothing right now. This just makes the case for closure of the South Branch that much easier. Now is the time to get a membership and hold the YMCA/JCC accountable. I choose to try to make things better for my community, not cut and run. I believe that we are making progress. If more members would have stepped up prevously, we might not be in this situation today.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:48 pmNathan,
I think there is a fundamental flaw in logic here. “Not-for-profit” does not mean that you don’t run a business like a business. Sure they perform certain charitable acts and enforce a Judeo-Christian mission in their youth programs and re-invest year-end profits into the organization like any other “non-profit” but that doesn’t mean they aren’t a business. Same with the United Way, churches and other 501(c)3 “charitable organizations”.
According to reports the YMCA is one of the largest employers in NW Ohio, if they just ran their business with the flippant attitude that they aren’t looking to maximize their revenue capabilities (which means minimizing competition) to a certain extent, those jobs would be lost.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:51 amJered,
The flaw is in your logic. What you are touting has proven itself to be unsustainable. This business logic has failed our community and our country. What I suggest is a move towards sustainability. We will all eventually face this inevitability why not face it on a united front with the proper tools. If the YMCA actually cared about our neighborhood they would allow us to try this. But since all they care about is their own existence despite their failing our neighborhood than I guess we will be the ones to pay.
I know that I said I was leaving, but when looking over what you all wrote I don’t believe you are ruling out my suggestion, thank you. Is there any criticism to put forth regarding the green technology or the Uniting of congregations here on the south end?
Lisarenee, once again you are correct. The only thing I could think of, as far as providing for the immediate renovations that would be needed; Cedar Creek. They were already prepared to renovate the building, why don’t they move to the south end, where they are welcome and encouraged to do so, and help us with this project. They certainly have the capability.
If anyone from Cedar Creek is reading this please help us build this Resource Center I get the feeling we can’t do it without you.
I don’t think we should remove Alexander from his job. And I apologize to all for being so confrontational. But, it is time to move away from the debate and towards a solution. Who is with me?! The YMCA did fail our community; the building is closing that fact can not be denied. I am not trying to be a harsh critic. They failed because they lost their costumers as Jered would probably point out. And they failed us as a community by not persevering through these hard times with us.
But the proposed Resource Center would offer something much different than what the YMCA offers now. It would allow us as a whole community to reach a sustainable and united culture.
Thank you all,
September 1st, 2009 at 10:33 amNathan Rawlins
Nathan,
It is very obvious the Y cares about communities. It is their business. Both the CEO and President of the Board stated their goal is to have a NEW facility in South Toledo. The current facility is not able to meet the program requirements of the Y. They have stuck with South Toledo through the hard times. Remember 20 years ago the branch director told the new CEO he would close the south Y. For 20 years they have stuck with South Toledo, AND they continue to do so. It may not currently be in a form you like, but they do so, and the plan to do even more in the future.
As for sustainability, there would be a much larger need to complete an energy assessment of the facility prior to proposing concepts such as wind, solar and other green technologies. It sounds like you have are very interested in that technology but it needs to be analyzed in need versus function. In particular, there are two very large considerations for the facility. One, it is heated with a rather outdated boiler system. Two, the pool mechanical systems are energy hogs to the extreme. One of those criteria (boilers) can be solved with a couple hundred thousand dollars. The other (swimming pool) is a product of it’s function. I might add there is absolutely nothing in the current facility for humidity control. This shortens the life span of pretty much every building element. (Lighting, doors, ceilings, paint, etc.)
Swimming pools are incredibly expensive to operate. Trying to run just that (and not the rest of the building) off of wind (When it blows) or solar (when the sun is out) is like trying to light Fifth Third field with a pen light.
Since I am the volunteer design architect for Cedar Creek, I will expand on what our preliminary renovation plans had included; gut the mechanical systems and replace with zoned rooftop units with air conditioning. Abandoned and fill in the pools, along with abandoning all of their associated mechanical equipment. Replace all lighting with 277 lighting. Most of our theatrical lighting is LED based so we were going to be fine with the total electrical power currently provided to the building.
As for Cedar Creek helping to build your proposed resource center, you need to understand our churches mission statement and direction. We are committed to reaching as many people as we can with God’s word. To bring them to become fully devote followers of Jesus Christ. To do so, we have implemented the multiple-site method. Our current campaign (Beyond Our Walls 2010)has plans for many more Cedar Creek satellite buildings. That is where our focus is and must stay. We have spent a lot of time and effort to develop effective business (yes, business) plans to reach these goals.
If I were any organization with money to invest, or even a charitable organization with money to provide, I would still want to see a solid business plan to make certain those dollars were being used to do the most good. While I admire your drive, the current form of your proposal isn’t developed anywhere near enough to secure the millions of dollars you would need.
Something else for everyone to think about… Cedar Creek had opened a satellite campus in Whitehouse at the Anthony Wayne High School. Hundreds of volunteers did everything they could to make that work. The invested a lot more than blood, sweat and tears. They invested their hearts and souls. After changes were made in our rent structure, it became apparent we could not sustain the campus at the High School. The campus was closed with the stated goal of reopening in a new facility. In less than 6 weeks, we will do that. The new Whitehouse Cedar Creek will offer more services than we ever could at Anthony Wayne High School.
So why this discussion is not about Cedar Creek, maybe our history can serve as an example of short term sacrifice for long term gain. I hope and pray for the success of the YMCA in South Toledo. I just don’t believe it will be at the current facility. And in the end, that may be the best way for the Y to serve South Toledo.
September 1st, 2009 at 11:19 amBob,
I will put my trust in your knowledge. You obviously know a lot more about efficient design than I will ever know. I will trust that you do have the best in mind for my community. Cedar Creek is not only welcome here, but I would rather the building be occupied than condemned. Is there anyway to save the park?
Since you guys are gonna be in the neighborhood allow me to welcome you. As well you should contact the Beverly Cluster I am sure (though I don’t speak for them) that they as well would welcome you. I am a practicing member of Our Lady of Perpetual Help and through Christ I have decided to devoted my life to the poor. I am sure that this situation can be forgotten about and we can all move together into the future.
On a side note, is there any chance you guys at Cedar Creek could help bring this community a resource center that would focus on the environmental and technological changes that are going to be needed very soon in the future. We need to start making these changes for our homes, businesses, and Churches otherwise we won’t be able to continue them. Look at the YMCA facility, it is unsustainable, how can we prevent this from happening to everything else in this community that we need so much. We will soon be out of the resources we depend on, and then the change will be much more difficult. Come, join our community and help us. Please!
September 1st, 2009 at 12:29 pmIs green technology really that inefficient? Will it ever be effective enough to make a difference? I am aware that my plan was unsatisfactory and I know I was leaving it open to this, but the plan is free to be altered, to make more fiscally sound, and of course to be used by anyone in any location. It was just a suggestion.
Thank you,
September 1st, 2009 at 12:49 pmNathan Rawlins
Mr. Rawlins, I applaud that you came up with a plan and have invested so much thought and foresight into it. I too don’t know the feasiblity of your plan and it sounds like it would cost big bucks, but at least you are trying to work on solutions. My hat is off to you!
September 1st, 2009 at 2:53 pmLulu,
Thank you very much. If it was ever something that looked to be possible, in the eyes of a professional, do you think it is something that our community could rally around? I pray that one day it is possible.
But, back to the discussion at hand. The YMCA… we will be without the resources they offer until they rebuild. And we will lose most of that park forever. The South End Community is definitly not on a winning side of this struggle.
Thank you,
September 1st, 2009 at 3:29 pmNathan Rawlins
Nathan,
I think you’ve fallen victim to the media-machine, Cedar Creek does not want to get rid of the park. They have even said they would renovate Woodsdale Park Drive and the associated parking lot.
As far as your comments in response to me there is something I take great issue with, it is obvious the YMCA cares for the community (as Bob stated so eloquently) otherwise they would have put the building up for sale and had it sit for years attracting vandalism and other detractors. The fact that the YMCA wants to partner with another faith-based organization to improve the community by pouring 2 million dollars into a depressed neighborhood is amazing and I can’t see any good-natured reason why anyone would rally against this. Its a shame that people are left in the dark and convinced that the plan is to “abandon the south end” or “destroy the park”.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:06 pmCedar Creek has said they want to pave over the Park.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:17 pmNope. Cedar Creek has never wanted to “pave over the park”. They wanted to work with the city to improve drainage, improve the access road and to add a SMALL amount of parking IF it would be mutually beneficial to the city and the church. The parking amounts the Blade listed were total, which included all of the parking that already exists. Look at AREIS and see the small rectangular piece of property by the Trail.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:29 pmBob,
On a lighter note, you make me laugh. I take it as a compliment, though others would not…..
You ask me to remember 20 years ago…. well thats kind of hard to do considering I was only 2 years old 20 years ago. So if I was even slightly involved in local politics then, believe me it is to my surprise. But thank you for the compliment.
Nathan
September 1st, 2009 at 6:48 pmJered,
Why would you call my neighborhood depressed? We think it is quite nice. You can call me anything you want, but why do you feel it necessary to make fun of productive citizens? They probably do not appreciate that. Is that how we are going to be treated from now on, and who do you represent if you don’t mind my asking. I demand an explanation about this!
Nathan Rawlins.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:05 pmI am hesitant to comment on the issue with Cedar Creek as this is a discussion about the closure of the South Branch of the YMCA. There are so many rumors and misinformation floating around about the site plan that we risk wasting our time and the Church’s time with that discussion.
Mr. Densic has reviewed the present South Branch of the YMCA buidling and I am sure has developed a solid plan for renovation. I would expect that Cedar Creek has reviewed a number of potential locations for their church and might have plans for other locations. Putting a church on the present South YMCA Branch site is not as cut and dry as it may seem. The neighbors have organized themselves well over the potential closure of the South Branch, they will organize better if the topic of losing even a foot of parkland is broached. The neighbors stopped Kroger and the Zoo from taking the park previously. There is no reason to believe that they will not turn out in force if there is a discussion about a change in use at Woodsdale Park.
The focus right now needs to be how to maintain the present South Branch until an alternative site is developed. Once the services are lost to the commuity, the YMCA might as well vacate South Toledo. The YMCA/JCC will have a difficult time getting the membership back to a branch in South Toledo. The present alternatives for services being presented are not sufficient. The Board of Trustees of the Greater Toledo YMCA/JCC recognize this and have agreed to discuss this further with the Community.
When the time comes for the South Branch to be relocated, the appropriate solution as I have said publicly is to have the Greater Toledo YMCA/JCC deed the property to the City for extension of green space at the park. The City can then demolish the building and enhance Woodsdale Park.
The discussion about the closure of the South Branch is not about Cedar Creek coming to South Toledo. It is about maintaining a potentially strong community asset in a community that is undergoing a transition while a new asset is created.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:24 pmBlah, Blah, Blah,
Wow, accomplishing a lot here. “your fault, no yours, maybe hers, probably his”
We have a meeting scheduled. (Excuse me while I get sick) OK now I am back.
Here is the down low. Not one person is talking about where to meet to help raise money for that Y. Not a Y employee, not a South Toledo resident. None. We all want to whine and bicker and fight about who is at fault. Everyone is!!!!!
Nobody has made a realistic effort to improve this location in years. No one.
It was never a big deal to South Toledo until it was slated to be closed. No politician gave a crap about it until they thought it may help in this years elections. No one at the Y cared because it is easier to run from a battle than to fight it.
Here we all sit and play the blame game and offer our ideas of solutions and no one is out doing anything.
When everyone is done bickering and wants to start raising some cold hard cash to help in this effort. Give me a call. 419-466-1346
I can raise at least $100,000 a year to support the Y. How much can you raise? Anyone ready to get started?
September 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 amNathan,
I am calling my neighborhood depressed (because its true), I never said it wasn’t “nice”. I live in the 43614 zip code, I am a member of the YMCA and I use the South, Morse Center, Wolf Creek and Summit branches quite frequently. My family and I have been to most of the other Toledo area branches to take advantage of all of the benefits of our membership. I have seen first-hand the positive impact the YMCA’s financial assistance based on conversations I’ve had with 2 families that receive assistance on my street. I have had the opportunity to get to know many of the desk staff at several of the branches and most are wonderful individuals who care about the members they see everyday.
Who do I represent? I represent the silent majority of Y members and other people in the community who is tired of seeing the Blade and other politicians (both vocational and civilian) waste their time trying to make a name for themselves or “settle a score” by dragging the YMCA through the mud. I represent those who are grateful for the high quality YMCAs that we have in this community and realize that the economy hits everyone, even “non-profits” and sometimes these decisions have to be made.
If it is an “explanation” you “demand” then I will simply say I am a member of the South Toledo community who is a strong supporter the YMCA and if closing one building in my backyard means that the YMCA can continue to operate in the community (child care at Faith Lutheran, youth sports & fitness at the Morse Center) and possibly return better than before then they have my support.
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:55 amIt should be pointed out that the 43609 zip code has been designated as a “tipping point” which means the neighborhood is at risk. Some would define that condition where income is going down, homes are not being sold and/or are becoming a higher percentage of rental versus owned as “depressed.”
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 amJered,
Yes, I am sorry. But that is why I will fight to have as many resources available for us. Before its to late.
I would love to help in any way that I can Charity Dude, and their are a few others (not many), we are all without any specific talent, but we think we can help.
Let me know.
Nathan
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 amCharity Dude:
Why waste $100,000 a year on an unsustainable building when you can focus on raising money to build a new YMCA with viable community partners like they have in West Toledo? Wouldn’t that be a better use of resources and time?
Nathan:
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:45 pmWhat if selfish, territorial fighting over one building results in the overall loss of effectiveness across the YMCAs in our city as a whole? Did you ever think about that? I respect your passion but I think you’re having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.
I would never waste money on a building. I would however be more than happy to invest in the people of South Toledo. I live in Perrysburg and we have a great Y.
I have long had a problem with the YMCA in several cities across the country partnering with Hospitals and other entities in order to increase the bottom line. In every deal I have seen, the backscratching hits a questionable level. When this happens, usually the area that loses the Y never receives the same respect.
I would just assume raising funds and making an offer to purchase the building from the Y. If their excess spending is the problem, then it should be fairly easy to maintain and improve the South Toledo Y at a fraction of the costs.
As far as programs are concerned, I have no doubt that their are plenty of programs willing to jump at the bit to help. Universities have child care programs and I am sure that they would welcome an opportunity to send their people to assist in Low cost daycare (it is part of their education requirements). I personally know that there are several local gymnastic coaches that would love an opportunity to run programs out of that location.
There is a beautiful park located next door that can be an epicenter for fundraising and festivals to draw income for that location.
I will stop on those points for now.
People have gotten so used to counting on the Y and the United Way and city grants to fund so many programs. It is time to eliminate the middlemen, save on expenses, and pay quality people to run a quality organization.
It has become the new thing to run an organization and make sure you create positions for family and or friends. One can defend themselves all they want, stating they have no direct involvement, but the coincidences get out of control.
Make a choice and lets talk.
September 2nd, 2009 at 5:45 pmJered,
I just want what our neighborhood needs to survive, and to produce productive citizens. I do think that our community may end up on the very short side of this deal. I am sorry for being confrontational with you but I don’t see how I am being selfish? I have spent a lot of time on this struggle, time that I should have spent studying or working. I never wanted this to happen. When did community involvement become selfish? What did I ever say that makes you think I am in this for myself?
Nathan
September 2nd, 2009 at 6:40 pmSounds like the Y is looking into s new building for the south Y, it appears they want it on the UT/MC campus… As the current thing at the morse center is not as easily accessible.
September 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pmI also heard that they are doing a city wide membership where anyone, can go to any Y and sign up for a MAX membership and not pay any sign up fees.
September 19th, 2009 at 7:53 pm