City reminder: Don’t park your cars illegally…
Updated post can be found above
This in via e-mail:
City of Toledo addresses illegally parked vehicles
In response to a citizen complaint to the City of Toledo Board of Community Relations, the Commissioner of Streets, Bridges and Harbor responded by going to the location of the complaint to assess whether it was valid or not. She personally observed that it was a valid complaint. She observed several illegally parked vehicles along the first street she visited. While there, a neighbor asked her to check out his street, which also had a number of illegally parked vehicles. Once she observed they too were illegally parked, she cited them as well.
The City of Toledo supports its laws in general and illegally parked vehicles can and will be ticketed, and these tickets are considered valid.
As an administrative addition, you might wonder what exactly are Toledo’s parking laws, there are a slew of them. Ones I see frequently broken are blocking a sidewalk and parking more than 12 inches away from the curb.
Generally illegal parking is a $25.00 fee unless you wait more than 15 days, then it goes up to $35.00.
If you want to see all of the parking regulations – search parking in Toledo Municipal Code/Charter.
Lisa,
This latest move from the City smacks of panic/desperation, IMNHO.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:33 pmIf they do not have more work to do than
June 15th, 2009 at 10:38 pmall of that, LAY THEM ALL OFF FOREVER
AND EVER!!
the mayor says that as long as it is a city law (ordinance) it will be enforced.
Of course, that should include citing Carleton Finkbeiner each time he lets his dog run wild in the city parks without a leash. He has been doing that quite regularly as he cuts grass on weekends.
Step up, Finkbeiner – take your own medicine.
Or is this another example of “do as I say, not as I do” that separates second class citizens from the ‘elite’ Finkbeiner ?
June 15th, 2009 at 11:42 pmHave they ever given out tickets for
parking at for example people charging
and allowing others to park on their
lawns or property for a golf tournament,
festivals, etc??
If not, guesss they will need to now
June 16th, 2009 at 12:05 amso Carty and city are not seen as
discriminating against some citizens!
Park your cars illegally? Seriously? As I once again do not have the option of sleep – because of the noise of the drag strip less than a block from me. And this has gone on for years.
I am less than a block from the intersection of Detroit and the Trail. All night long I hear the races start at that corner. They squeal their tires and then you hear them let go at the green light. They leave Maumee (with traffic enforcement) and the start line for the drag races is at Detroit and the AW. (You do the math on the Toledo ‘traffic enforcement’ – it’s not like they could possibly not know this – you can hear it for quite a distance. And it’s constant).
We even saw a flier a few years ago. The ‘last Urban drag’. From Detroit and the Trail to downtown Toledo.
Parking is the least of our traffic problems.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:50 amI think I will start ticketing the City of Toledo for all those city owned lots where the grass is allowed to grow 4 feet tall! There is a city ordinance for that as well.
June 16th, 2009 at 7:53 amKatie! You too?
We used to live on Beverly Drive, and our back yard was bordered by the AW Trail. During the summer we had a group of young men with crotch rocket bikes drag race past the house around midnight. Those bikes were so loud they’d knock you right out of bed, and the police wouldn’t do a thing. In retrospect, I think some of the racers were police.
June 16th, 2009 at 8:39 amThe ticketing story is now on the Drudge Report linking to the Fox Toledo story. It’s never a good thing when Toledo is mentioned on Drudge. Being linked to on Drudge started the national firestorm with the Marines.
I remember I was in LAX using the weak wifi signal I got from the VIP room above me when I saw Toledo in red on Drudge for the story about Toledoans buying more guns as police were cut. Not something you wanna see.
At least this story isn’t red.
June 16th, 2009 at 9:08 amCongratulations! Toledo has made the front page of yahoo.com:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090616/ap_on_re_us/us_odd_ohio_driveway_tickets
June 16th, 2009 at 9:27 amHere it comes………
June 16th, 2009 at 9:36 amI’ve looked through the charter, I have to admit I haven’t found a section where it states people can’t park on their own driveways if they are not paved. I’m still looking, because a large number of Toledo homes use stones on their driveways…
June 16th, 2009 at 9:43 amAll I can find is this:
(29) Stand or park a vehicle in the area between the pavement edge and property line on any curbed street or highway inside a business or residence district;
(30) Stand or park a vehicle in the area between the pavement edge and property line on any uncurbed street or highway inside a business or resident district if such area is maintained as lawn to the pavement edge or lies adjacent to property in use for business or off-street parking;
Which would mean if that is it? The City is attempting to state that stones laid down as driveway are maintained as lawn, which is pretty hard to swallow as a definition….
June 16th, 2009 at 9:48 amLisa – I have a blog post that lists the TMC section code for the parking violation as well as who has the authority to issue tickets.
June 16th, 2009 at 9:51 amYes Lisa – it’s part 33 in that same section …351.07 (a) (33) Stand or park a vehicle upon any unpaved portion of a front lot or side lot in any residence district, or upon any unpaved portion of a vacant lot in any residence district, except as otherwise permitted under the local Zoning Ordinance, Part Eleven of the Toledo Municipal Code…
June 16th, 2009 at 10:00 amThanks Maggie, that’s three rules down:
(33) Stand or park a vehicle upon any unpaved portion of a front lot or side lot in any residence district, or upon any unpaved portion of a vacant lot in any residence district, except as otherwise permitted under the local Zoning Ordinance, Part Eleven of the Toledo Municipal Code.
And then from Part Eleven:
1107.1906 Surfacing and Drainage.
Off-street parking and loading spaces, parking lots, maneuvering areas, aisles and driveways must be surfaced with concrete, bituminous asphalt, or other dust-free material other than gravel or loose fill, and be graded to drain all surface water towards the interior of the parking lot.
(Ord. 170-04. Passed 3-23-04.)
This was passed in 2004 without any apparent method to grandfather in those who had gravel driveways. I am not sure if that year of the Toledo Journal is online but that’s my next step.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:06 amLet me get this straight.
1. There was a complaint.
2. The complaint was found to be valid.
3. The ILLEGALLY parked cars were ticketed.
Am I missing something? I honestly don’t see what the issue is.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:06 amThanks Gregg, I saw that it was three more down as Maggie and you both pointed out, it’s above, I was checking out chapter 11 to see what it specifically stated since it’s referenced.
2004 is not online, I remembered correctly, so I’ve asked for a copy of that ordinance.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:08 amLisa – I do know some of the residents believe they should be grandfathered in…because they say their houses were annexed into Toledo from Adams Twp in the 1970’s…most of those houses date to the 40’s and 50’s…That’s another story for another day…
June 16th, 2009 at 10:14 amMike wrote:
That’s what the current version of Toledo counts on, Mike – people like YOU that are unquestioning and unchallenging to the status quo.
I think it was the famous and unimitable el mahico that once said “Never blindly follow your leaders.”
Truer words were never spoken.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:20 amGreg, this may be the area being ticketed now, but I believe there are other areas of the City where curbs do not exist where people have stone driveways. This particular group may have an additional point, since they should have been grandfathered in.
This creates a situation where these residents could be ticketed every day until they put in a driveway that’s either concrete or asphalt.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:23 amSo from what I have read, you are permitted to park your car in unpaved areas if it is in the ‘BACK’ of your house rather than front or side?
June 16th, 2009 at 10:43 amcolumbo wrote:
No I just believe in the slippery slope theory. I don’t believe in following blindly. Where does it stop? Park where you want to..then drive where you want to..As fast as you want to..wrong side of the street if you want to..etc. I was just pointing out they were “illegally” parked cars.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:43 amwell exactly Lisa – the man we talked to is breaking the law everyday…it sounds like he can legally park his car behind his house, but that’s not where he normally parks…there are so many issues and loopholes when it comes to parking which is probably why we are having this conversation in the first place…
June 16th, 2009 at 10:46 amFirst I’d like to discover what it was before the ordinance in 2004, I’ve requested all of that documentation and will be able to pick it up tomorrow morning.
Next we need to discover if there is a way to have this legislatively addressed since it’s not fair to have laws exist that create a demand that the only way people can park legally in their own driveways is to have to pay for concrete or asphalt when their homes have had gravel for decades. That I’m working on too…
June 16th, 2009 at 10:57 amat least an intial warning would have been prudent. how this has progressed makes it appears the city is taking part in a neighborhood dispute and/or lining its coffers at a time when people are in economic distress. minor offenses occur on a regular basis, some by people who knowingly/intentionally break rules – this case would appear as though many/most assumed they had some kind of right to do so either through grandfathered or residential or whatever. we don’t want government by “gotcha” but rather sound public policy fairly enforced.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:57 amWell, it has been a while since I last posted. I usually only respond to the dumbest behavior on record, and to those that seem to excel at stupidity. Thank you, Carlton S Head-Up-Your-Butt Finkbeiner, for setting a new standard. You, sir, are bringing Toledo right back into the national spotlight with this one. You rank right up there with the chucklehead ice fisherman on that warm, breezy, winter day…
Since you don’t get it, Mr. Mayor, get yourself on board the short bus, and see if you can follow along:
June 16th, 2009 at 11:08 am1. The folks that have an unpaved driveway may not just have an unpaved driveway by choice. It may be an economic factor. Asphalt, concrete, and paver blocks (hmm, I wonder if those are allowed)are considerably more expensive.
2. The homeowner might not be able to afford a paved driveway.
3. In these economic times, the homeowner might not be able to afford to pay your ticket.
4. Therefore, you’re not going to be able to collect. At the end of the day, you’ve alienated yet another neighborhood, without any financial gain.
5. In summary, extract thy head from thy buttocks, issue an apology to those folks, and get back to doing what you do best…whatever that may be…
Carty is getting national exposure again. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090616/ap_on_re_us/us_odd_ohio_driveway_tickets
June 16th, 2009 at 11:11 amMr. Common Sense, paver blocks would appear to not be legal, and there are two parts to this, first the fact that in 2004 Toledo City Council approved this ordinance which made possibly thousands of Toledo area residents illegal parkers. Second, why it is now being enforced or was it being selectively enforced since then is a question that could be laid at the door of the Mayor. He was however, not the Mayor in 2004.
This is a sad example of the law of unintended consequences where legally these people are breaking the law but should they be cited? I think not…
June 16th, 2009 at 11:14 amNot Again, see comment number 9.
June 16th, 2009 at 11:15 am(I think) Carty should apply for a czarship in the bo administration. (I believe) bo needs some good dictators to help control the citizens.
Admin edit in (… )
June 16th, 2009 at 11:15 amThis whole ticketing people parked in their gravel driveway is beyond ridiculous. Really…I’m guessing that a lot of those people have been living in their homes for at least 20 years or more and have always had a gravel driveway, and now it’s a problem? Who was complaining about people parking on gravel? It just seems like a desparate cash grab by the city.
June 16th, 2009 at 11:28 amI would agree with columbo on this one – if in fact they were parked illegally then by all means ticket away. Now if we can only get the “ticketers” to visit the plaza on Glendale where Aldis is located to get themselves a large sum of funds. People there think that parking in the fire zone is okay because they will be going in and out real quick so there’s no need to park in an actual parking spot.
AssHats
June 16th, 2009 at 11:58 amRoman, my dear husband. I totally disagree, as this law stands thousands ended up being in violation with no one seeming to realize when it was looked at in 2004 that they were creating a scenario where people had driveways prior to that time that became illegal. It’s not like parking in front of Aldi’s where it was legal than became illegal, it’s always been illegal to park in a fire lane. The only way under the current law people could not be ticketed would be to put in new driveways. This ordinance creates a hardship which in itself should create an exclusion.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:15 pmIf the mayor thinks it’s o.k. for Sue Frederick to issue tickets, then isn’t she Finkbeiner’s “Von Ribbentrop”?
http://tinyurl.com/mmgjgj
June 16th, 2009 at 12:16 pmThen my dear wife the folks that passed that ordinance should be (admin edit) for not expressing the outcome of such an ordinance but given the way things are today I’m gonna lean towards they were quick to pass before observing every detail. This kind of pass now ask later scenario is not new in Toledo which is why I encourage all Toledoans to pay attention and not just assume things will be done right.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pmI think the issue is less about the legality of the parking on gravel and more about the authority to ticket. Sue Fredrick has no more authority to issue a ticket than you or I.
If the ticket were issued by someone authorized under the code to do so, I could still take exception to the selectiveness of the enforcement. But the whole thing falls apart when you realize it’s being done by an individual without legal authority to do so.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pmI only mentioned the fire lane parking at Aldis as an example for the city to make some quick cash on a daily basis. We are overwhelmed with morons in this city that are willing to break the law and then be surprised when caught. These issues need to be looked at and then grandfathered in.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:38 pmGuess what? The Commissioner of Streets, Harbors and Bridges has special police powers. Update on my blog.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:43 pmMaggie, I remember discussion in the past related to the power to ticket people, I’m guessing they could also use:
1101.0606 Delegation of Authority.
Whenever a provision requires the head of a department or another officer or employee of the City to perform an act or duty, that provision will be construed as authorizing the department head or officer to delegate that responsibility to others over whom they have authority.
The Zoning code does stipulate in Chapter 1115 who can do this, and it does state:
1115.0506 Criminal Penalties.
A. For each and every violation or instance of noncompliance, violators may be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree, as defined by Title 5, Criminal Offenses, Section 501.99, and each day that the violation exists will constitute a separate offense.
B. A subsequent violation of this Zoning Code involving the same property, the same violator, and occurring within two years of the last prior conviction for the same violation, constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree, as defined in Title 5, Criminal Offenses Code, Section 501.99.
(Ord. 170-04. Passed 3-23-04.)
That was passed the same time the rest of this chapter was created in 2004.
I don’t disagree that do they have the power to ticket can be a part of this discussion, but the bottom line is in 2004 it was updated when the new chapter was written to create a scenario where anyone who does not have a concrete or an asphalt driveway is in violation of the law. So as people debate the legality of how these tickets were done? If nothing is done to change it? All that can happen is the mode of how the ticket is delivered could change, not the actual offense.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:49 pmActually, it’s spelled out pretty clearly in TMC 309.01:
(d) “Law Enforcement Officer” means those persons appointed pursuant to Sections 129.02, 129.06 and 129.08 of this Code whose duties include the issuance of Parking Infraction tickets while engaged in such duty.
And 129.05 specifically lists this commissioner for special police powers. That authority was adopted by council on 1-16-07, Ord. 15-07.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:55 pmMaggie, that is the whole “special powers” that I remembered being an issue before. I believe it came up related to the Mayor attempting to ticket someone, if I recall correctly. It also looks as if these homeowners could have been charged with other zoning code violations which could have been even more expensive.
I appreciate you updating this, I’m currently reading the documentation from 2004, it was emailed to me so I’m going through pages of it.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:55 pmYes, it was which takes us back to how to change this to protect residents who ended up violating the law in a manner that would create a hardship for them to comply.
June 16th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI was led to believe that the residents in this area were grandfathered in due to the fact that it is an area with unimproved uncurbed streets. I received tickets in 2006 (A Carty Shakedown again) for this same violation. Needless to say I have not and will not ever pay these tickets. It is gravel.
June 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pmI’m not all the way through all of the documentation from when this whole part of the charter was redone in 2004, but I don’t see any mention of grandfathering in for your part of town or any other part of town. I know of other areas where people have gravel or brick driveways, they would also be in violation of this law as it stands.
It’s unfortunate if this happened to you in 2006, that no one addressed it Rick.
June 16th, 2009 at 1:31 pmColumbo wrote:
Let’s hope the City of Perrysburg or the their school district would do the same thing! He constantly takes the darn dog to his grandson’s football games, off-leash, even with a sign on the fence outside the field that says “no dogs allowed”.
Hmmm…
June 16th, 2009 at 2:00 pmroman wrote:
I just feel relieved because obviously in this household there is a difference of opinion on capital punishment.
So now the real question – which at your house: Fox News Channel or MSNBC?
June 16th, 2009 at 2:27 pmI’ve taken what we’ve learned since this began and have created an update to make it simpler to follow for those of you new to this topic.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pmThanks for the reminder Jeff, I meant to edit out his choice of verbiage since the last thing I need is suggestions that he made a threat rather than a poor word choice. Actually right now since we don’t yet have one of those converter boxes the answer would be neither, but prior to that, we were a non-cable family so our differences would be reflected in our news website preferences.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:32 pmAnd this story made the A.P. You can find it on CNN, Fox, Drudge – whatever your poison of choice is.
Here’s the AP text:
“Tuesday, June 16, 2009
TOLEDO, Ohio — Residents of Toledo, Ohio, are complaining that they received $25 tickets for parking their vehicles in their own driveways.
Mayor Carty Finkbeiner says he stands by the citations handed out last week by the Division of Streets, Bridges and Harbor. He says the tickets were issued under a city law against parking on unpaved surfaces, including gravel driveways.
During a news conference Monday, Finkbeiner ignored a reporter’s question of whether the crackdown and fines were related to the city’s budget crisis.
The three-term mayor faces a recall vote in November. Critics have claimed he has wasted city money.
City Councilman D. Michael Collins calls the ticketing “Mickey Mouse nonsense.” He has told residents he’ll try to have the citations rescinded,”
And there’s a video upon cnn.com
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/06/16/dnt.driveway.parking.ticket.wtvg
So, another embarrassment played out on the national news…
June 16th, 2009 at 4:05 pmoh to know how cool I was around the water cooler to know the exclusive on Carty’s recent “out-of-his-league” event.
I got extra bonus points for knowing Sue Fredricks’ name when it got to that point in the convo lol
I’m so proud and knowledgable because of this site.
June 16th, 2009 at 4:20 pmHere’s my question: If Ms. Fredericks has enough time on her hands as an acting commissioner to get involved directly in what is IMHO a rather trivial matter, is it possible for a reorganization within the city’s administrative offices to consolidate administrative duties and eliminate a few of these highly paid executives so that Toledo could keep more police officers on the streets? Toledo could probably bring back at least 3 officers for every 2 of these “leadership” jobs that are eliminated.
June 16th, 2009 at 4:53 pmHANG IN THERE TOLEDO, IN A FEW SHORT MONTHS CARTY WILL BE LONG GONE, KEITH WILKOWSKI WILL BE MAYOR, A PROFESSIONAL AND AN ATTORNEY AT LAW WHO KNOWS HOW TO READ LAWS AND HAS TEMPERMENT FOR THE JOB
June 17th, 2009 at 2:18 amColumbo-
I apologize for my earlier posts. I only read what was in the article above. I assumed the illegally parked vehicles were in front of hydrants, over sidewalks, etc. Once I learned the specifics, I completely changed my tune. I guess I was guilty of premature opinionation
June 17th, 2009 at 7:53 amWe have gone through Sue Frederics bullshit for years about parking on our gravel and on a concrete slab in the back yard that she said was not concrete, phoey! nomatter what there are state and federal laws to protect the average citizen from people like her and Carty they just have to be enforced. Also Lisa the ammendment that first stated concrete or asphalt was in 1996 I am on my laptop otherwise I would scan a copy for you.~Nate
Rick Gerbeck wrote:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pmMike wrote:
I agree Mike. The cars were illegally parked according to Sec. 1107.1906 of the City ordinances and Sec. 129.05 gives the Comm. of SB & H the authority to issue tickets. Hate to admit it, but the Mayor is right on this one.
If you think the law is a poor one, your complaint is with the City Council-they passed it 11-1.
June 18th, 2009 at 5:48 am