ESM Hearing before Toledo City Council – Updates keep rolling…
I just got home from attending the over three hour long meeting. I have the complete audio from today which I am in the process of converting to an mp3 format and I will also break down the audio into smaller segments to point out some of the key areas of concern that were stated today.
To be blunt, some of the information that was stated by the Administration was less than clear and at times conflicted what was stated today. There appeared to be several schools of thought shared today by Council members and by those in the community. To briefly sum up some of the positions presented today:
A) That the city should not be in the business of doing business (meaning not competing with private businesses)
B) Proper bidding procedures as well as contracts and prevailing wage laws should be followed by the City
C) That the event raised money so even if it was done wrong, the focus should be on the outcome and not on the process
D) That the focus should be on the process and even if the event raised money if it’s done wrong it should not continue
E) That if future events happen they should not be handled by Mr. Croak or the Verso Group because of his public record
F) It’s unfair to focus on Mr. Croak’s non-payment of federal or other taxes or his criminal record because he was asked to help (though it was pointed out that Mr. Croak introduced himself to the Mayor and had a conversation about Verso Group’s abilities in December).
G) That council is responsible for this since they gave the Mayor and the Administration the authority to manage ESM knowing previous issues with the Mayor.
H) The administration never explained why Council was not notified as to the planned changes at the Erie Street Market
No one seemed to believe that all of the 13 contracts coming under the $10,000 mark was not purposeful, though that was the position of the City Administrators present that it just happened to work out that way. Which also conflicts with what was stated since the dollar amount of the scope of the work being at a certain dollar amount was mentioned more than once.
Audio files uploaded thus far Portion where Councilman Collins questioned Administration and Mr. Croak
Wma file of three hour session
Short Clip of Councilman Craig where we learn that Mr. Croak plans to bring more than concerts, the 6 to 8 events he is planning for each month includes Roller Derby
Councilwoman Webb’s questions and resolution to have charter change go before voters in November to change dollar amount from $10,000 to $2,500 that Mayor could spend without Council approval, audio clip and Councilman Ashford’s questions along with the “fool me once” phrase. It’s interesting that Councilwoman Webb was told that the resolution has to go before the Charter Review Committee. That’s now how the City Charter reads as what is necessary for something to get on the ballot, there is no mention of a Charter Review Committee as a required step:
Section 5. Amending Charter.
Any amendment to this Charter may be submitted to the electors of the City for adoption by resolution of the Council, two-thirds of the members thereof concurring, and shall be submitted when a petition is filed with the Clerk of the Council setting forth the proposed amendment and signed by not less than ten percent of the electors. In either case, the proposed amendment shall be voted upon at the next regular municipal election if one shall occur not less than sixty, nor more than one hundred and twenty days after the passage of a resolution therefor by the Council.
Another section of the Charter came into the discussion by Councilwoman Shultz who states this part of the Charter would prohibit the City from doing what it is currently with the ESM:
Section 79. Compulsory referendum of certain measures – franchises.
No ordinance or resolution for a public improvement requiring or authorizing the expenditure of more than fifteen percent (15%) of the average gross annual current operating expenditures by the City for the five (5) fiscal years immediately preceding, or for the granting of a general public utility franchise, shall be effective until the same shall be approved by a majority vote of the electors voting thereon; provided, however, no convention center, exhibit hall, sports arena, or municipal theater, other than a sports arena located in the City’s Marina District, being the area bounded by the Maumee River, Interstate Highway 280, Front Street and Main Street, shall be constructed, acquired, or leased unless the ordinance or resolution authorizing construction bidding, acquisition, or leasing shall have been approved by a majority vote of the electors voting thereon, whether or not such ordinance or resolution requires or authorizes the expenditure of more or less than fifteen percent (15%) of the average gross annual current operating expenditures by the City for the five (5) fiscal years immediately preceding. A general public utility is one in which all the people of the City may have an interest.
Fox’s coverage of today’s meeting, NBC24, WTOL, WTVG has video but no print story as of yet.
Audio of the Public Comment Portion of today in a separate clip.
Audio of the second part of Councilman Collins questions/statement that created some of the public comment in a separate clip.
Blade coverage from yesterday.
“G) That council is responsible for this since they gave the Mayor and the Administration the authority to manage ESM knowing previous issues with the Mayor.
H) The administration never explained why Council was not notified as to the planned changes at the Erie Street Market ”
Isn’t the response to H, shown in G)?
August 6th, 2008 at 5:39 pmNot really, since this was not questions, the alphabetized selections were common things stated today done in an outline format. They don’t address what was stated, only what was stated that I heard more than once
August 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pm“They don’t address what was stated, only what was stated that I heard more than once.”
That’s what I got out of it.
My point was/is, there would be an expectation of something different based on the past history of the managing of the market, the deliberate failure to communicate and so on.
Council lets the administration manage the market and does set guide lines, down to the most simple item and then people wonder why the problems come right back around.
Groundhog Day all over again, and again, and again…
August 6th, 2008 at 5:47 pmThanks LisaRenee, sounds like you had to wade through a ton of hot air to let us know what happened. The bottom line appears that nothing has changed. Just another day in the life of Toledoans. They are getting used to the mayor and how he conducts business and I guess they accept it for what it is and who he is.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:25 pmC) That the event raised money so even if it was done wrong, the focus should be on the outcome and not on the process
Just because it raised money does not mean the City should do it. That is a very scary thought whomever said that.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:28 pmCongratulations to you Lisa and all who made time to attend. From the clips on TV it looked like there was a pretty good group in attendance.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:30 pmNC, your comment was basically what was stated by some on Council and in the comments, that since they know what to expect from the Mayor that what has happened with this particular project at the ESM should not surprise anyone.
Ron, maybe, but it was a large turn out and it appears some on Council have had enough, now have enough of them had enough? That remains to be seen.
Chris, I don’t disagree but that sentiment was expressed more than once.
Tami, yes there were quite a few people there, as Council President Sobczak noted, more on this issue than when Council voted on the budget. Though I have to say, I watched the council meeting where the budget was voted on from home. The City does not provide video for meetings such as this, so I went because I knew it was the only way I could hear it today. The audio is typically available the next day on CD for those who request it from Council.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:55 pm“NC, your comment was basically what was stated by some on Council and in the comments, that since they know what to expect from the Mayor that what has happened with this particular project at the ESM should not surprise anyone.”
Huh?
Knowing what they know, steps were not taken to see that the actions stop.
If one knows what to expect and does not want it to happen, one takes step to stop the action, not encourage it or allow it continue.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
August 6th, 2008 at 7:00 pmWow NC, were you there too? That exact comment “fool me once” was mentioned.
We all know not all of council supported this or previous actions by the Mayor, though none of them came right out and said “I told you so” it was made clear that the other council members should have expected this outcome.
August 6th, 2008 at 7:08 pmThe absolute disregard from the council to the fact that the city is not there to run a business was not surprising to me. Like I told my wife and co-workers, the city will not lose money if the endeavour goes the wrong way but a private entity would and then suffer the loss and then hope to improve their presentation next time. With the city relying on the tax dollar there is no way the city can lose only the tax payers. Like a gentleman said during the meeting – this event would of worked for a private entity just as it did for the city. There are more players to the ESM then just the mayor that are not showing their faces but it will all come out in due time.
If Tetra Tech does buy the ESM are we going to get money back for the upgrade in bay4? I can pretty much assume that TT will not and nor will the ESM. We need to cut the strings to this place and let it succeed on its’ own. With the facts on Carty’s side you would think he can find a buyer and then take credit for whatever is developed there.
I have to apologize to my wife one more time for tapping on the back of her chair because I found it hard to contain myself when the bs started to come out – so sweetheart… I’m Sorry.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:11 pmI have at least 4 pages of notes to talk about tomorrow morning and I invite anyone who was there to call in and share thier thoughts. A number of people mentioned it was thier first time and they were interested in the process. Shame they had to see today’s display of what the administration is like. Next time Lisa you and Roman get up and say something, don’t leave me hangin’.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:14 pmAlso Mark Sob…………………………………czak will be with tomorrow at 8:30a
August 6th, 2008 at 9:15 pmI won’t be sitting next to you ever again (lol)
In theory at the profit margin of $6,000 per event as was stated today it will take 13 events to make back the $80,000 that was spent. That doesn’t include the increased utility costs that were not mentioned since if there is an event more electricity is going to be used for the equipment, cooling, food service etc.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:16 pmFred, you and Maggie and some of the others did a great job in what you stated. There wasn’t much I could have added that wasn’t said.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:18 pm“F) It’s unfair to focus on Mr. Croak’s non-payment of federal or other taxes or his criminal record because he was asked to help…”
Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse the hell out of me! What idiot(s) said THAT?
August 6th, 2008 at 9:30 pmMrs. Phoenix, that took place during the public commentary part, which I’m just finishing uploading now, it was stated by several of those who were there in support of Mr. Croak and Verso. F) is a summary of the statements made, one of which is also highlighted by WTOL, the statement made by Dan Steingraber:
“I’m here to tell you today that I am completely and totally appalled at the character assassination that has undergone on two private citizens — business owners in the city of Toledo.”
August 6th, 2008 at 9:41 pm“Wow NC, were you there too? That exact comment “fool me once” was mentioned.”
Nope.
Have to work two jobs, because of all the progress in the area.
“….though none of them came right out and said “I told you so” it was made clear that the other council members should have expected this outcome.”
Tune in next time and watch the same thing happen all over again, I am willing to bet or have we learned any lessons?
“Fred, you and Maggie and some of the others did a great job in what you stated.”
And the station is sponsoring the events at ESM, ad dollars from an alleged theft of business is not such a bad benefit.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:46 pmTo be fair to Fred & Maggie, I don’t think they are involved in the advertising decisions of WSPD, though yes, it is ironic that the station was one of the sponsors.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:49 pm“To be fair to Fred & Maggie,”
It has got nothing with the people.
It is not nor shall it be a personal issue.
The station is sponsoring the events and people employed by the station are speaking out against the city because of some sensationalized event.
Ratings and ad revenues from a commercial enterprise any that can be had.
But, for me, I do not listen to local radio at all, and watch very little local TV, the playing of both sides of the issue for gain is obvious.
If there was a real theft, then the station would have or should have withdrawn the support.
As it has not, the actions by not withdrawing the sponsorship tends to undermine the statements, at least that’s how I see it.
August 6th, 2008 at 9:55 pmLisa – You know I was chomping at the bit the whole time. Short of screaming out obscenities …. Oh well, it seems as though a couple members of council are feeling the heat of the constituency – and that’s a good thing.
As for Mr. Croak. I believe that even convicted felons should be allowed to work. It’s part of the process of rehabilitation. That being said —- I do not think that the city has any business doing business with him when they are using taxpayer dollars to perpetrate a sham. It’s unethical, it’s poor procedure, it’s unfair to those of us who work daily to survive within the budgets we have.
I was very proud of Lindsay Webb for her tenacity and her introduction of the charter amendment that Mark Sobczak danced around so handily. Lindsay is trying to hold the administration to a level of accountability that they are not used to – and you can bet they will attempt any way they can to dispose of that resolution. I just hope she doesn’t give up and pushes that envelope to the limit.
What can happen? Carty throw a round house punch at her? Now that would be interesting! (As long as Lindsay ducks and doesn’t get hurt.)
I also applaud Mr. Collins for his “take no prisoners” approach to this whole mess. He’s dead on in his beliefs (IMO) and I hope that this administration takes him seriously.
Heck – if I was going to be in Toledo during the next Mayoral election I would only hope that he would run.
Thanks for putting up with me squawking in your ear. I think Roman and I were both ready to jump up and screech.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:09 pmCarol, at least you didn’t keep thumping the back of my chair…
I’m sorry I made you have a coughing fit.
I don’t think Lindsay’s idea will be able to be done in time to make it on the November ballot, I also can’t help being skeptical that no matter the dollar amount unless it’s tied to a per project situation in addition to a dollar amount that there would not be ways around it. That said, I’m glad she continued despite what Sobczak stated.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:35 pm“” But, for me, I do not listen to local radio at all,….the actions by not withdrawing the sponsorship tends to undermine the statements, at least that’s how I see it.**
Don’cha just love people who admit they don’t know what they’re talking about and then talk about it?
Since you don’t listen (and possibly learn), nc, program director and aftenoon host Brian Wilson explained yesterday that the Programming side of WSPD has little to with the Sales side and that Sales often involves “sponsorship” as “part of the package”. Wilson also stated these deals are often made far in advance of the actual event so there was no way to know the possible implications of what was coming. The entire Croak – Fink – Council blow-up took place waaay after the sales deal.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:00 amAny “success” or “profit” benefits the taxpayer whose money has been pissed down the ESM rathole for years. WSPD focused on the so-called “process” of the Toledo Tyrant’s end-around the City Council and that the end does NOT justify the means as Frank-Who-Would-Be-Mayor would have you believe.
Iff it wasn’t for WSPD, ignorance of the illegal, immoral and counter-productive activities at 1 Government Center would hardly see the light of day. After the meeting, Brian, Fred and Maggie spent 30-45 minutes reviewing it. How much did you see on TV? OH! That’s right, you don’t watch TV news, right? So that leaves The Blah. You get your “news” from the sorriest excuse for a “newspaper” in the entire state? Great choice. Try WSPD. With the occasional article in the Toledo Free Press (only available once a week), WSPD is the only source in Toledo for the facts. And if you don’t like the opinions expressed by Fred, Brian and Maggie, you can call them and say so. Try that with the Blah or the TV stations.
Let us know how that works out for ya.
Wow Gil – it looks like you hit it right on the head. I heard Fred this morning mentioning the conversation they had regarding the promo that night. It’s nice to know that there are listeners out there that actually pay attention.
NC – you can’t participate in a conversation if you don’t have some details before spreading accusations. That is why when I post here its very limited and I make sure that before I say anything questionable I check my homework/checklist first.
Some people out there thrive on putting others in check. The shows are very informative (WSPD), you just have to bare the truth even if it hurts you emotionally, physically and monetarily.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:15 amGood heavens,
No wonder this city is second rate( or maybe thirdrate). The media and citizens of this community have nothing better to do or worry about than micro-managing the minutia of city hall. As for the ESM renovations – so what? A strong mayor should have some financial discretion – show me a great city that is not run by strong people who are afforded some authority to get things done. This city desperately needs ne life and optimism. Why not more entertainment options downtown and elsewhere to help develop a critical mass of postive movement. I’m mot sure that our city council really understands this, or most of the residents for that matter. At least the mayor is trying to show some leadership and optimism these day and that’s more than can be said for all of you negative nabobs who do nothing besides sit on your butts and blog and bitch about how the city is being run. Ask yourself – or Mike Collins – what have you done to actively pull this city up by its bootstraps and to give people a reason to stay here and enjoy life. Reading the comments on these blogs is like listening to children bicker in the backseat of a car. It’s tiresome, irritating and achieves nothing. Please step back and take a larger view of what’s going on here. I’ve lived in many other larger – growing and vibrant- cities and what sets them apart from Toledo is that their citizens and media are NOT bogged down in these petty, small minded games of political gotcha, and juvenile silliness. I say Bravo to the mayor and to all those in this city who have the vision and energy who attempt to make a difference in a town that is quickly having the oxygen of hope sucked out of it by this pervasive environment of pessimism and petulant pettiness.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:21 am“Don’cha just love people who admit they don’t know what they’re talking about and then talk about it?”
Ya know, I do matter of fact.
So there was a deal done way in advance.
There is now some allegation of some alleged theft of business. Business was stolen? How does one steal business? As in holding a gun to another’s head and says gimme your business or I drill ya full of lead.
Sure there was an explanation given by the Program Director, the simple fact is that the station is sponsoring the events and there by are profiting from the alleged theft.
“Iff it wasn’t for WSPD, ignorance of the illegal, immoral and counter-productive activities at 1 Government Center would hardly see the light of day.”
What about the Toledo Free Press, Toledo City Paper, Sojourner’s Truth and the citizens that expose the non-sense at One Government Center?
“That’s right, you don’t watch TV news, right?”
No, that is not what I wrote.
I wrote that I do not watch local TV news. Why? Because the people do not have the technique of digging for answers. Throw a question out and the person soft shoes around the question and onto the next question leaving the question unanswered.
Sorta like having our City Council President on and not holding his feet to the fire for allowing the Council to once again put the city in conflict instead of showing some leadership and flesh out the details, before passing legislation.
“And if you don’t like the opinions expressed by Fred, Brian and Maggie, you can call them and say so”
You missed it right at the beginning of what I wrote, twice now.
I wrote and will write it once more, it is not about Thurber, LeFebrve, et al., that is a tactic that is used to turn things and comments personal and draw attention from the issue.
No, this is not a personal issue, this is a contradiction in philosophies.
As you wrote, I can call them, or I can write comments in public forum, also.
Sponsorship of an alleged illegal activity is really an odd position to put a business in and that is what has happened. But then again maybe the alleged theft was nothing more than what happens in business, deals are made and deals are broken.
The real meat of the story is why does the city keep doing these types of things, when we the citizens have said, stop it, where is the over sight, where is the end to these types of things.
These questions get asked but the answers are not forth coming.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:23 am“NC – you can’t participate in a conversation if you don’t have some details before spreading accusations. ”
Spreading accusations?
I merely repeated or wrote what has been stated.
There was an alleged theft of business, a local media outlet is sponsoring the now alleged theft of business and the local media outlet is not or was not aware that it or was sponsoring the alleged theft of business.
The accusations were spread the minute the alleged theft was reported.
Did I miss something?
And just for the record, like Brian Schwartz once said, I am no supporter of the administration.
But to claim theft and then profit off an alleged theft is a bit convoluted.
August 7th, 2008 at 7:29 amAll you have to do to find another energetic, hardworking mayor who ins’t afraid to take chances is to look to the north, Kwame Killpatrick, Dem. mayor of Detroit (One of America’s dying cities).
August 7th, 2008 at 8:52 amGil says “WSPD is the only source in Toledo for the facts.”
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! STOP IT YOU’RE KILLING ME!!!!!!! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!
August 7th, 2008 at 10:07 amI co-sign #24 tomjoad’s post. Bravo! Bravo!
August 7th, 2008 at 10:08 amTom Joad’s point about needing more entertainment downtown is a valid one. How he would like to go about it isn’t. Taxpayers have no business funding public run entities that are in direct competition with privately run business. Right now the ESM is being run both as a rental hall (the CCP) and as an entertainment venue for concerts, comedy shows, roller derby etc. etc. What’s to stop the city from including bowling lanes once a month, indoor volleyball courts, batting cages, or any other event on which they can make money?
August 7th, 2008 at 10:27 amThe crux of the problem is this. What do you tell the 86 rental halls in this area, the comedy club, the bars, and nightclubs when they ask “Why are my tax dollars being used in a business that competes directly with me.”? Joad and Rocket have no answer for that except that the end justifies the means. As long as the city makes a profit then it’s alright. If that’s all it’s about the city should legalize prostitution, turn the ESM into a whorehouse and have at it. What makes more money then a $100 hooker on a Saturday night in Toledo Ohio? And added bonus, we control the whoring trade, so no more pimps, streetwalkers, etc. etc. It’s a win-win. I’m sure Toad and PocketRocket are well meaning but a quick read of the constitution, the state constitution, and the city charter will tell you what the government is allowed to do, but more importantly what it should not do. It should not interfere with it’s citizens exercising thier rights to pursue thier dreams of owning a business and making a profit, thereby creating jobs and tax revenue for the city,state, and federal government.
tomjoad,
Our city charter gives the strong mayor $10k worth of financial discretion and that is a good thing. Problem is he took $80K that we know of. There is nothing that took place at ESM this past weekend that couldn’t have been accomplished better by private business without exposing the city and taxpayers to the risk and expense.
This action created no jobs, alienated private business, City Council and taxpayers, and in addition it will likely lead to tighter restrictions on that financial discretion when the next mayor tries to do something the right way.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:05 amInterestingly enough the original plan for the deck included a ramp so that ESM would be ADA compliant. The short time frame demanded by the city left the ramp off and created more space for the deck. That means a ramp will have to be constructed somewhere, most likely the side of the building, at more cost to the taxpayers. I’m just sayin’
August 7th, 2008 at 11:13 am“What’s to stop the city from including bowling lanes once a month, indoor volleyball courts, batting cages, or any other event on which they can make money?”
City Council, perhaps, maybe?
Did you ask the Council President if he is going to show leadership and lead and put an end to the vague resolutions and ordinances or are “business plans” going to be drafted and then put into place, and then ooooppppsss, we’ve been shamed again, and again, and again.
“What do you tell the 86 rental halls in this area, the comedy club, the bars, and nightclubs when they ask “Why are my tax dollars being used in a business that competes directly with me.”?”
I would tell them, get together, put aside the fact that are competing with each and go down to One Government Center and demand a stop to it.
So far, I think we have heard from one business owner and some alleged stolen lights.
“but a quick read of the constitution, the state constitution, and the city charter will tell you what the government is allowed to do, but more importantly what it should not do.”
The City Charter allows the administration to do as it has done, with regards to the dollar limit.
You mean as when there is nothing written, it cannot be done?
As in, we should have no Education Department, No EPA, No Air Force, No Interstate Highway System, No National Parks, No State and No Local Parks, and so on, because they are not mentioned in the constitution.
“. It should not interfere with it’s citizens exercising thier rights to pursue thier dreams of owning a business and making a profit, thereby creating jobs and tax revenue for the city,state, and federal government.”
The ESM is a privately owned venue?
We, the citizens own it and we are stuck with it, all the empty vacant stalls.
Until we can get it off the public books, do we shutter it and board it up like so many other places in the city?
Do we let sit idle and vacant sink thousands of dollars into each and every month to produce nothing?
Do we expect better over sight with regards to business plans or are we going about Business As Usual with no end in site.
If it was simply the administration, it would be simple, but were is the over sight.
But it’s not all about the administration, Ms. Ward, asked and pointed out where is the over sight. Well, anyone seen it? it’s around here somewhere.
One only needs to read about the past of the administrations actions in the city, and I think the shame on us count is somewhere in the 20 to 30 range by now.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:17 amAnyone have any historical back ground on when the ESM started, etc.
I found the grants from HUD for the market but there is scant little else to be had on the web, using common search terms for the market.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:12 pmWhat did Jon Stainbrook have to say on behalf of Croak?
August 7th, 2008 at 12:30 pmSitting half way back in the audience yesterday, I can say it was very interesting to watch audience reactions to comments etc.
It seemed about 1/2 were concert goers and they showed up to support Mr. Croak and his promotional efforts.
The other 1/2 were against the City doing business which in turn hurts private businesses that pay taxes.
Tow trucks..ambulances..bars..restaurants..nightclubs..comedy clubs..carryouts..etc. Toledo is anything but business friendly.
Also, they were against the mayor abusing his power/authority concerning the over/under $10,000 expenditures which in turn showed nothing but disrespect to council and taxpaying citizens.
The audience had to be gaveled to order once because of noise/applause. Luckily, subsequent showings of approvals by limited…quieter applause was allowed to take place. Hence my 1/2 fraction estimate.
Normally, there is no applause/noise allowed during the meetings.
I was born on VE Day. Except for Roger Williams at the zoo in the ’60’s, my date’s idea, I have never been to a concert. I Know…LOL.
It is my impression that music/concert lovers whould back Mr. Croak regardless of location….as long as the group/band was GOOD/Popular etc. If the Black Keys were at Headliners last weekend, I assume the turnout would have been the same even if Bay 4 at the ESM is nicer, bigger?, etc.
Btw….ESM stands for (Carty’s) Erie Street Museum. It is his quest…it will be his legacy. His ego/arrogance have no bounds. He is never wrong….it is his way or else….
The city is potentially on its way to bankruptcy….but the mayor just fiddles with the ESM, bike paths, flowers, signage etc. Decline in population, decay in neighborhoods, very high unemployment yet the mayor looks the other way. He complains about the budget deficit, but does nothing about it. He is too busy with his own priorities. Lawsuits brought by former employees don’t seem to bother him.
He loves to be a cheerleader….and it “feels so good when you win.”
The truth is….he has no team (willing to say no), the few remaining fans in the stands are willing to go along to get along. A majority of fans left long ago. His antics at long last got to them.
A successful strong mayor will put police, fire and refuse first. Water, streets/potholes, come in 2nd. And so on…. Good leadership could be invaluable. Staying focused is very important. Being modest when necessary would be beneficial in striving for successful outcomes.
I don’t believe it is possible for Carty to be a successful strong mayor.
He just doesn’t have it in him. Anyone who knows anyone who has had to sit through his marathon staff meetings with flying cups, limited bathroom visits, listening to his tirades will have an idea of what he is really like. One more time, his arrogance knows no bounds. Quite frankly, even on a good day, he is still a jerk.
Semper Fi Mr. Mayor………..
The end.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:41 pmChris,
Think birds of a feather…..
August 7th, 2008 at 12:50 pmChris the audio of the public comment section contains Stainbrook’s comments, it’s about one third of the way into that audio section.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pmI hope that councilperson Webb’s resolution to limit the money the mayor can spend will be on the ballot. Carty needs to be reigned in. It will also give me something to look forward to voting on, in November!
August 7th, 2008 at 1:31 pmDoes anyone have the election results when Carty ran for mayor against Ford? Was that election close or did Carty win hands down? Toledo knew what it was getting when he was elected didn’t
August 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pmthey?
Toledo needs a mayor that has the cheerleading capabilities of Carty and the ???? of Jack Ford.
I have a whole new respect for Jack after watching Coffee with the Fords. Where’d his wife do the cheerleading when Jack was in office, must have had it all bottled up for her television debut
Carty 48,899 61.89% to Jack 30,113 38.11%
August 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pmhttp://www.co.lucas.oh.us/boe/OfficialResultsNovember2005.pdf
I think it’s pretty hilarious that so many folks on this site sound so indignant about the city and/or any other government agencies being involved in the entertainment industry. Oh my. Say it isn’t so. let’s see, if I recall, this new 100-million dollar downtown arena is being put together, financed and hand maidened into extistence by public money. authority and power. Tell me again what private companies stepped forward to invest. Yeah right. Or what about Fifth Third field…Last I heard they still play baseball there — and if my memory is correct, I think the stadium (entertainment venue) is publicly held and guess what? The county owns the baseball team. Fortunately the will of those with vision won out over those who would have stopped the project in its conception because they didn’t want public money used. But then again, it always seems that while a few folks lead with vision and purpose, the vast majority would prefer to sit on margins and chatter like monkeys. Oh yes, what about Savage Hall? Somebody should tell UT that they too shouldn’t be in sports and entertainment business because it might encroach on Bill Delany’s pathetic smoky bar. Point here is that methinks the excuses and protestations are little more than just another barrage of limp excuses to have something to blame Carty for everything. Trust me – I’m no Carty fan, but we in Toledo are all kidding ourselves if we think the mayor is our biggest problem in the city. This last council meeting was yet but another distraction from the real priorities we should be dealing with. Look around folks- the city is melting economically as foreclosures fester and jobless lines increase monthly. I could go on. Despite the obvious threats that hang over this city, WSPD and their minions and folks like Mr. Collins continue to howl at the moon about Carty and other contrived issues and problems. So maybe Carty is a jerk, he’s still the least of our worries. Picking on him everyday is merely picking the fleas from the lion before it eats us.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pmSo……were union workers used in fixing up ESM????
August 7th, 2008 at 2:04 pmPaul, union workers as far as city workers were used in fixing up the ESM, it does not appear any of the contractors used were union.
I also think that a suggestion made that people that come up to speak before Council should have to state their home address is a valid one. It’s especially important when someone lives outside of Toledo. Owning a business in the city is great, but those who don’t live within Toledo while they should still be allowed to speak it seems dishonest to claim a Toledo address when speaking yet in reality live someplace else.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:53 pmIf you listed to Fred’s interview of Mark Sobczak which is online at WSPD it’s possible that a grievance could be filed by one of the unions for the city which would create a scenario where the work could potentially have to paid for twice.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:59 pm“So that leaves The Blah. You get your “news” from the sorriest excuse for a “newspaper” in the entire state? Great choice”
Oddly enough if one cruises around the web, one sees a lot of commentary based on what local papers write in all regions of the country, even right here in our little slice of the world, the “Great choice” is used as a source of commentary and background.
If it is so bad, why use it as background?
The “reporting” a lot of the times is commentary based on what others have reported or written or blogged about.
If someone breaks a story, well then it is news.
If someone takes what someone else have reported on, they are merely commenting on what has been written and is not news.
August 8th, 2008 at 7:20 am