Gutierrez & Jennings fired…Simpson & Utovich resign…
The latest in the scandal formerly known as “pajama-gate” is reported in today’s Columbus Dispatch:
The two longtime Dann friends who shared a Dublin-area condo with him were fired: Anthony Gutierrez, his general services director, and Leo Jennings III, his communications director.
A third longtime friend, Dann’s top nonlegal adviser, Edgar C. Simpson, resigned last night instead of being fired this morning. And Jessica Utovich, Dann’s former scheduler, also quit last night.
Some of the rumors related to sexual affairs has been a part of this story:
Dann’s top assistant who headed the probe, former state Sen. Ben Espy, said during the investigated he asked her if she ever stayed overnight; she refused to answer the question. Dann, however, acknowledged she had stayed overnight; “he did not, however, give reasons,” Espy said
Jerid’s reporting that Dann has admitted to having an affair.
While I don’t typically focus on rumors, it was stated then retracted that Governor Strickland had asked Marc Dann to resign but that Marc Dann’s wife was against the idea of resignation. Modern Esquire posts about it on Buckeye State Blog then updates with a correction/retraction. Tim Russo believes the rumor about the Marc Dann’s wife saying no to the resignation is true.
The Blade updates with a report on the press conference Dann held today that confirms also the affair.
Dann said he will not resign even after an investigation scolded him for allowing a woman who claimed harassment by an aide to his apartment for drinks.
Dann took responsibility for the scandal and acknowledged that he was not prepared to be attorney general when he took office and not ready to take over an office of this size.
“I’m embarrassed. I have taken responsibility for what I’ve done,” he said.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer also has coverage on this continuing story.
Despite what Dann has stated about not resigning, he may now not end up with that as an option…
Over at BuckeyeRino Daniel’s tracking the blog reactions…
I am troubled by Dann’s statement that he was not prepared to be attorney general when he took office. Um, why did you run, Mr. Dann????
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm[...] Glass City Jungle [...]
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:25 pmI am troubled that he had an affair, and has not resigned.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:30 pmI thought that the democrats were going to bring honesty and integrity to state offices? What schmucks.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:36 pmBlaming all Democrats for Dann would be like blaming all Republicans for Noe. Not all of us believe either is true.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:51 pmSo far Dann’s been evasive (in this matter), slow to take responsibility, surrounded himself at the highest levels with personal friends and ninnies (not necessarily mutually exclusive), had an affair with a subordinate, and finally admits that he “wasn’t ready to take office”. Is that frank admission supposed to endear Ohioans to him ?
Certainly Marc Dann must have some close politcally-savvy personal friends with ethics still intact who could/should urge him to resign as he is clearly not suited to the position of AG. If they exist they need to step up.
Ohio has been the playground for many politcal douchebags of both parties. When do you suppose the good people of Ohio will say enough is enough ?
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:52 pm# 5 LisaRenee Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:51 pm
“Blaming all Democrats for Dann would be like blaming all Republicans for Noe. Not all of us believe either is true.”
Noe wasn’t an elected official.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:55 pmWould you prefer I use President Bush as the example?
Not to mention some but not all Republican office holders were involved and not all of them stepped down, state and local, in which the Noe story took place.
Bottom line, ALL Democrats aren’t responsible for Marc Dann, elected or otherwise and they are not all schmucks.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pmLisa, I wasn’t calling all democrats schmucks, I was calling Dann and his ilk. I recall during the election many democrats trying to paint all republicans running for office as the party of Noe.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:37 pmWell, the voters are certainly thinking and re-considering their knee-jerk “throw the republican bums out” reaction in the last Ohio election. I think Betty Montgomery has a good shot at the AG job in next election cycle, now, regardless of who is appointed should Dann resign (should she want to run). But men holding public jobs don’t tend to resign. They have no desire to try to find work in the disastrous economy politicians themselves have helped to create.
This is guesswork, but I think he will hold out & hang on by his fingernails for purely economic reasons, knowing he will not be re-elected. In the meantime, this is affecting the governor’s office negatively, regardless of brave faces and carefully crafted public statements. If Hillary doesn’t win, and any promised federal jobs are not in the offing, he has to run in in Ohio again. I read his bio – he is a former minister. Regardless of what is being said for public consumption, I am guessing surrogates of the governor’s office would be pressuring Dann to consider resigning right about now. Again – guesswork – but educated guesswork.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:39 pmFrom the Ohio Attorney General, Marc Dann page:
“While he is proud of all his legislative accomplishments, it was his work to expose and end corruption that had the greatest impact on Ohio. Mr. Dann played a critical role in the investigation of “Coingate,” the scandal surrounding the investment of $50 million by the Bureau of Workers Compensation in rare coins peddled by Tom Noe, a long-time fundraiser. ”
Expose and end corruption except when it happens in his office.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm# 8 LisaRenee Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
“Would you prefer I use President Bush as the example?”
What did Bush do wrong?
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:56 pmPam the way that was phrased was taken by me as if all democrats who ran when Dann did were schmucks.
Jrs, another reason why Dann and Noe come to mind as a comparison, Dann made coingate a huge issue even prior to his campaign for AG.
Which is another reason why he should resign, he expected those involved in coingate too, and while some did not, he should follow the same level of expectation that he would demand of other elected office holders – republican and democrat alike.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:59 pmDann lived two doors from me…I cannot express how shocked I am.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:20 pmHe needs to resign immediately, he even said he wasn’t ready when he started…I say NO DO OVERS!
I dont see how he can hang on at this point.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:11 pmAs soon as the fact that Dann was going to hire a driver to drive him back and forth from his home to Columbus came to light, I knew we were in for a “fun ride” from Mr. Dann. If he doesn’t step down, can Strickland “make” him step down? Oh wait, this is the Strickland that filled Ohio full of his BS while campaigning but has also turned out to be a huge disappointment I’m talking about, isn’t it? Guess it will continue to be politics as usual?
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:39 pmStrickland is attempting to turn around Ohio after 16 years of ineffective GOP leadership. At least give him a few years to see what he can do. His hands are tied presently by the sad shape Ohio was left by Governor Bob “duffer” Taft.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:23 pm# 12 Not Again Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:56 pm
# 8 LisaRenee Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
“Would you prefer I use President Bush as the example?”
What did Bush do wrong?
I believe the more appropriate question is what has Bush done right?
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:05 pmThe Bush Administration is built has ignored the Constitution in the consolidation of their power. The GOP controlled Congress acquiesced. Look at the current state of the Country. History will remember Bush as one of the worst Presidents ever, certainly the worst during the past 50 years.!
By the way, Mr. Dann should resign and give another Democrat AG the chance to hold on to the seat, perhaps Lucas County’s own Julia Bates.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:06 pmThank you “Just Wondering.” Governor Strickland will do whats right for the state of Ohio, and if he needs to pressure AG Dann to resign he will, and so will the State Democratic Party Chairman. I am sure I will get my ears filled with this problem next week as I will be attending the State Democratic Party Convention in Columbus. I just hope it is not a big destraction, as we have party business to conduct and from what I have been informed, one or maybe both of the candidates for president will be keynoting. Chairman Redfren informed the State Committeeman on April 24, that one will be in attendance and both have been invited.
Just to inform all of you, there will be outstanding coverage on CNN starting at 7 pm on Tuesday, May 6th for the Indiana & North Carolina Democratic Primary. Indiana always has an interestring way of reporting, so I am sure that Wolf Blitzer, will project right at the top of the hour (7 pm) “GO HILLARY.’ GO GIRL GO My feeling….she is going to sweep both of them and also P.R.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:19 pmMike….Great Call “Julia Bates would be outstanding, but we loose her here in Lucas County. How about “Chandria” (Spelling???) He ran for the office in the May 06 Democratic primary. Or Eric Fingerhut. He ran for US Senate, was a former US Congressman and State Senator, and is a trial lawyer.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 pmSubodh Chandra – his campaign website is still live for those curious as to his qualifications.
I think he’d be the best choice, many felt he was a better choice than Marc Dann. Perhaps they were right.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 pmLisa….Very impressing….
I just might do some pushing and shoving in Columbus if the time is right. I know Mike Zickar (WCPC) and Amy Grubby (ECPC) will go for Chandra. Mike backed him in 06. Also, Thanks for the correct spelling….
All we Committeemen/Women & Party Chairs can do is suggest, but the appointment if there will be one, comes from the Governor, and is approved by the State Legistature.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pmThere might have to be an election since Dann has not served half his term, I read that in the comments on Blogger Interrupted.
Checking rules as I write to find out…
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 pmLisa, If you can’t find out, I can call Dan Pilrose tomorrow. He knows election law front and back and could give me an accurate reading
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pmWell, it doesn’t appear to be listed in the ORC – under the AG, the Governor or under elections.
It’d be nice if just for once our goverment had documentation written so that the average non-lawyer could find it.
Calling Dan would probably be a good idea, thanks Michael.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm#4, #5, #7 – regarding Dems. and honesty/integrity
Not that these people are Ohio related, but let’s not forget the likes of Mark Foley, Newt Gingrich, Rudy, and the list goes on just like it does for Democrats. Elected official or not, it isn’t a Democrat or Republican thing. These are human beings making choices and poor ones at that. Last I checked, political affiliations do not cause people to have affairs, poor morals do that. But maybe lack of morals is a pre-requisite for elected office and that is where the two are connected.
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 amkc, valid point.
As to the earlier question as to what would happen if Dann stepped down, Eric over at Plunderbund has the section of the Ohio Constitution referencing this and states he’s heard rumors that Dann would not resign until August.
§ 3.18 What vacancies governor to fill
Should the office of Auditor of State, Treasurer of State, Secretary of State, or Attorney General become vacant, for any of the causes specified in the fifteenth section of this article, the Governor shall fill the vacancy until the disability is removed, or a successor elected and qualified. Such successor shall be elected for the unexpired term of the vacant office at the first general election in an even numbered year that occurs more than forty days after the vacancy has occurred; provided, that when the unexpired term ends within one year immediately following the date of such general election, an election to fill such unexpired term shall not be held and the appointment shall be for such unexpired term.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 am“History will remember Bush as one of the worst Presidents ever, certainly the worst during the past 50 years.!”
Jimmy Carter is easily the worst president ever, and he continues his anti-american ways. And Mike, in case you didn’t notice when you copied and pasted, there was a smiley in my original note. It was a joke silly.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:42 amWOAH WOAH WOAH !! Lisa — Easy with the NON-LAWYER talk – I can’t afford to have a system based on plain language and logic.
Your killing me.
A-Hole.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:31 amAll kidding aside – I find myself torn again. I strongly believe character matters in an elected official, and that personal morals and beliefs should be a part of any person’s decision making process, elected or not.
But, an affair is not corruption. IF Dann was engaging in sexual harrasment, quid pro quo, put up or get out, conduct – investigate him, charge him and fire him. If however, he has a character flaw of infidelity, that does not in and of itself make him corrupt.
As we all know – power corrupts. As humans, resisting the temptations that come with power is a full time job. (I would guess, I have no power in my house or office! lol). And, I do not expect purity and perfection from officials all the time.
That being said – remember I’m torn – the “scandal” has brought out some very specific issues – He was not ready to take the office, he is responsible for the things his dept. does and doesn’t do, and if his conduct is in direct contradiction to his claimed goals and qualifications for taking the post – it implicates his integrity (as does infidelity. torn).
So I’m fence sitting a bit. The political reality is, he should resign. He is likely to be unable to be effective in any fashion as the State’s primary law enforcement official at this point.
The A-Hole
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:43 amThe more I read the more narrow the fence gets – and its starting to be a pain in my ass.
He fired a criminal investigator for dating a subordinate.
Two cronies fired, one resigns.
His girlfriend resigns – for unstated reasons.
Several underlings encouraging staff to lie to investigators – but his hands are clean? PLEASE.
Fire him.
The A-Hole.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:03 amRead the Blade editorial on this. They 1) Take full credit for Gov. Strickland’s victory; 2) Find a way to work the Seneca County Courthouse into the Dann story.
I anticipate this will be The Blade’s last word on Dann, that way they can focus on the issue most important to all of us: The Lucas County Republican Central Committee.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 amIf anyone thinks infidelity is not a close cousin to corruption, think again. Infildelity with a co-worker would get me terminated in a minute (because I am in a position of power). And because I “cheated”, no one would trust me to do business with them. My integrity would be gone. Works the same way in Dann’s situation. It’s over for him. Strickland is a decent man and will ask him to leave. On a side note, anyone who thinks Obama will not be the dems nominee probably still thinks OJ wasn’t the killer.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm“On a side note, anyone who thinks Obama will not be the dems nominee probably still thinks OJ wasn’t the killer.”
I would think that the majority of folks that think OJ is innocent (or say he is), ARE voting for Obama!
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pmAt least we were making money with Noe.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:58 pmJust wandering in Toledo.
rentapen
Lisa,
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:05 pmThanks for the coverage
#1 comment by Pam is what I noticed the most,
“I wasnt prepared to run the office because I never thought I would win.”
are you seruous dann?
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pmAccidental submission there. What I was going to say is that while this is a worthwhile discussion about morality in those who hold office, his resignation is probably a foregone conclusion. The reason I say this is that when you have two public employees involved, the issue of taxpayer money will become involved. People will be very upset if/when they learn that their taxes went to pay for, pick one, an apartment, cell, text messages, car, gas for trips, etc., in furtherence of that relationship,. I think when that happens, or the discovery of that fact is imminent, he will have no choice but to step down.
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:15 pmI find the whole situation sad. I have met the AG many times, and found him to be thoughtful and engaging. I also have real questions about injecting “morality”, into this equation. I do not think a lack of morality should be the reason he leaves, but I think his exit is imminent nonetheless.
Jim -
I agree with you on the morality issue. My point in bringing it up was that people started pointing fingers at his misgivings like he did it because he was a Democrat. I was just bringing up the fact that his political affiliation had nothing to do with his choices and that people from both sides make poor decisions.
May 3rd, 2008 at 3:57 pmGreat point kc. Although to be fair, Dann ran as a reformer. I guess that may put the morality issue front and center.
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:22 pmJim, always great to see you here and your contributions are always spot on.
A-Hole, the more of the interviews I read that were done the more it becomes clear that while I agree that an affair alone is not enough to make someone step down, as Jim stated, Dann ran as a reformer which makes this a larger issue in the eyes of many in the public.
Ben, I agree that comment made by Dann made me do a double take as well.
Joe, I don’t believe OJ was innocent, and I still believe there is a chance that Hillary could be the candidate. I’m fairly certain I’m not alone in either category.
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:38 pmLisa,
Nice to be back, thanks
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 pm“But, an affair is not corruption. IF Dann was engaging in sexual harrasment, quid pro quo, put up or get out, conduct – investigate him, charge him and fire him. If however, he has a character flaw of infidelity, that does not in and of itself make him corrupt.”
I agree, The A-Hole
It is a matter of opinion whether sexual dalliances are character flaws. It’s really not any of my concern if my elected official goes home with *20* people – good for him/her! (as long as it is consensual of course and doesn’t prevent the official from doing work for the public good)… That sort of behavior is assuredly not illegal. Bizarre and immoral in the eyes of some perhaps, but not illegal.
But in a case where sexual harassment could be suspect (i.e., having sleep-overs with subordinates of the opposite sex), shame on you!
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:51 pmMr. Dann had a problem during the investigation. He told the investigator (his second in command) that his female subordinate did not spend the night at his condo. After a few days and after she said she did, he asked to amend his response to the original question. He said that he did not have enough time to answer completely. Sounds like Obstructing Official Business or Obstructing Justice. I would expect a sizeable settlement at taxpayers expense or an expensive lawsuit to say the least.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 pmBy Monday morning, if not sooner, every major Ohio newspaper will have called for Dann’s resignation. Strickland is now pointing out the double standard in Dann’s office. The silence from the rest of Ohio’s “power” Dems is deafening. Does that silence come from pity, shame, complacency, head buried too deep in sand, politcal brotherhood, or what ? Sorry to beat a dead horse on this but it is my belief that this environment existed in Dann’s office in part because it was allowed to. What happened to the days when the big dogs would simply have made a call to demand “…knock that crap off…” ?
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:46 pmHey, come on, it’s Redfern!
Status quo folks…the position needs a man with a spine.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 pmI’ve been thinking about this issue lately – infidelity, affairs, felonies committed by party leaders – and carefully working with what I want to communicate on the subject. Scripture has been quoted – “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” I’m not at all certain that this scripture covers all of the bases: perhaps, “Be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove” might be more appropriate, and my rationale follows… First of all, I believe in forgiveness. I believe in grace. I know I’ve made mistakes, and I’ve always appreciated the compassion and forgiveness of others. Yet, accountability is a factor, too. There comes a time when the mistake is too big to allow one to remain in a given position of leadership and trust; forgiveness is still present, of course, and the issue is not judging the person as a human being, but rather concluding that the given person is not the appropriate person to lead in the given situation. This happens in the church (or should): there is grace, and there is accountability. In tandem, the two can serve as a mighty balancing force to sustain high standards in leadership positions. I am interested in hearing the thoughts of others?
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 pmPraise the Lord, Dann should be fired! That is, if he doesn’t have the guts to quit!
May 4th, 2008 at 12:00 amAnyone familiar with Detroit mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick. The tax payers of the city of Detroit paid a lot of money to a couple of police officers that were fired for investigating the mayor’s affair with a member of his staff. She took the fall and Kwame is hanging on to his office saying it’s a God-given right. Who knows what Ohio taxpayers will be paying these two women that are claiming sexual harrassment. The buck should stop with Dann. Having his own affair set the mood for his office.
May 4th, 2008 at 1:03 am90 percent of the folks in Detroit have given KK a free pass because, frankly, it is socially acceptable to do the things he has done. KK may get away with his crimes. Whitie Dan, will never get away with adultry.
May 4th, 2008 at 8:36 amI’m just wondering if “Not Again” called for Governor Taft to resign when he was actually convicted of ethics violations. I seriously don’t remember. If “Not Again” did call for Taft’s resignation, he/she is within their rights to call for Dann’s resignation. If not, keep your opinion to yourself.
May 4th, 2008 at 9:12 amThe last thing we need in the Democratic party is more lies and cover ups.
I certainly hope that Dann steps down, his actions are intolerable and his behavior is not representative of the Democratic party.
Chris Redfern has had a rough time trying to get the party members out who need to get out. I’d hate for this to turn into a throwback to the ‘Strippergate’ scandal from last year.
May 4th, 2008 at 11:08 amAs long as we keep breaking these issues down as democrats or republicans, we all will keep losing. Dann’s comment that he was not qualified to be AG is very telling. But how many of us looked at his qualifications before we voted for him? On the other hand, how many of us voted based on the D or R? We blindly followed party and voting stereotypes. We also listened to The Blade put forth their opinion of what was best for the area. I am tired of being BS’ed by all these political people. When are we going to take these political offices back and hold elected people accountable? Bottom line: Dann is damaged and will not be able to serve Ohioans and our State interests. We will all pay the price. And it is not a D or R issue.
May 4th, 2008 at 11:13 amLisa – when I made the OJ comment, it was meant to be mostly tongue in cheek, nothing more, and certainly not racial. I am amazed at how many people are suggesting that since Taft did that, then Dann can do this, or since R’s did this, D’s can do that. In my corporate/management world I hold a position of trust and power. If I violate that somehow, i.e., infeldelity, with a co-worker, I am out. Yet here we are debating whether Dann stays or goes. A closely related issue here is that these people were lying, to their wives, to their co-workers, etc. Yep, just who I want to do business with on a handshake! Trust me!
May 4th, 2008 at 11:26 am# 52 Just wondering Says:
May 4th, 2008 at 9:12 am
‘I’m just wondering if “Not Again” called for Governor Taft to resign when he was actually convicted of ethics violations. I seriously don’t remember. If “Not Again” did call for Taft’s resignation, he/she is within their rights to call for Dann’s resignation. If not, keep your opinion to yourself.”
No, I don’t believe that I did call on Taft to resign. I didn’t visit this site until Karyn’s infamous exploits brought me out of the wood work. And you all have been so good to me, that I have decided to stick around for a while. I promise I won’t call on Dann to resign again.
He should be FIRED!!
May 4th, 2008 at 11:34 am#53 Allison Dow -
Wasn’t that “strippergate” the situation where we had the pot calling the kettle black ?
I was there at the golf course hole where those girls were, and none of that stuff actually happened. I was with John Irish and Domenic Montalto that entire day. Anita Lopez, also. That stuff NEVER HAPPENED. Skippy was grandstanding, and did not report his allegations until Monday morning. Political nonsense.
You, however, were at the center of your “Vote Naked” campaign at the University of Toledo. I saw pictures of you butt naked and your running mate butt naked in your campaign literature, encouraging students to vote for you.
Yet you feigned indignation at the ‘exploitation of women’ in political activities.
Didn’t you find that fact of your nakedness as you prostituted yourself for votes a bit inconsistent as you stood there at press conferences, calling for the resignation of top party officials?
That is the pot calling the kettle black.
Kids.
May 4th, 2008 at 12:04 pmtsk, tsk.
You obviously didn’t pay attention because neither terry nor I were ‘butt naked’, we bared our shoulders for college votes, did it publicly and openly, and distributed the flyers with our own money. I feel no shame over that, and it’s a stunt thats been done on multiple campuses. Baring my shoulder certainly didn’t illicit any sexual acts or mistreatment of women at a democratic function.
And you obviously weren’t at the golf outing to witness the coverup and lying, because it was all admitted to. I certainly think that Chris Redfern is more informed than some one who poses under a fake name on a blog to try and intimidate and bully young women.
Also, I am not ashamed of my body and no woman should ever be. I’m not afraid to expose my shoulder, just because some ignorant person will compare it to hiring strippers for a family fund raising event or being a public official that cheats on his wife with someone who works for him.
Oh and in case you were wondering, Terry and I provided color copies to the news stations of our flyers, and I still have hundreds left if you would like one!
May 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pm# 57 el Mahico : “I saw pictures of you butt naked”
Oh and if you some how got pictures of my butt or of me naked, I would love to know where because they were taken without my consent, and that would certainly make you a creepy person who is harassing me and breaking the law.
May 4th, 2008 at 12:17 pmEl Mahico – going after Allison is not appropriate and has no bearing on this thread. Nor was she “butt naked” and even if she would have been? Unless she was with Marc Dann it doesn’t matter.
There are other people that I talked to that were also at the golf outing who stated what Wade says was correct. However…this thread is NOT about strippergate and Allison was merely using it as an example of a previous situation that caused dissention in the party.
May 4th, 2008 at 12:20 pmThis thread is getting way to personal, and there are much more important things going on in politics to concern ourselves with an event that happened almost a year ago, here in Toledo.
May 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pmMarc Dane will be delt with by us insiders of the Democratic party in due time. I being a retired federal employee who was intrusted with thousands of dollars know what being above board is all about, when you are dealing with public trust and public finance.
During next weeks Democratic Convention, we State Central Committee members will be meeting as an add on caucus and I am sure this will be brought up and if it is not, I will be sure to bring it to the table.
No one wants Dann gone more than me, as I feel he will be a drag on the ticket in 2008 and also in 2010, as we democrats need to keep the Governor’s office and Secretary of State, as a certain board will meet in 2011, which means alot to some of us within the Democratic party.
Please folks, lets stay on focus. I for one don’t want a third (3rd) Bush term under Sen. John McNasty.
Actually it would be a 6th Bush term, if you count Bush Sr.’s 2 terms with Reagan as figurehead (per former insider Al Martin), Bush Sr.’s one term without Reagan, and dubya’s 2 terms. Equally bad would be a 3rd Clinton term.
As Jesse Ventura pointed out on Jay Leno last week, the two party system itself is corrupt, is destroying American from within by negating any real democracy. I loved his line about a “dual monarchy” in the U.S. since 1980. He asked if these are the only two families who are allowed to rule in America????? I’m with Jesse – we need to get rid of the two-party system.
The dual monarchy is terrified that O’Bama will win. An O’Bama Justice Department could conceivably uncover a lot of dirt and illegality that the two families want permanently buried. One of the first things Bush II did on entering office was to seal the records of both his father’s and Clinton’s years in office. The republicrat pretend two-party system is a sham.
May 4th, 2008 at 3:03 pm#52
“If not, keep your opinion to yourself.” What?
Isn’t this a blog, a forum for expressing ideas and opinions?
Lisa, maybe you can clear that up for me. Yes some threads get to personal. Yes there will always be people who resort to personal attacks when they cannot support a cojent, respectful argument with logic and facts. But, KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF?!
The A-Hole.
May 4th, 2008 at 3:05 pmA-Hole, I agree at times things get too personal, as evidenced on this thread. I don’t encourage people to keep their opinions to themselves, if I did, this blog would have no reason to exist.
I think just wondering could have phrased what I took the intention of the “keep your opinion to yourself” comment directed at Not Again a bit clearer. I took it to be more of a question related to did Not Again also expect the same level of behavior from everyone.
I try to give everyone latitude in my rule enforcement, at times the past history of exchanges creeps into current posts, which I also try to take into consideration. However, clearly I want everyone to feel as if they are welcome to post here with the request being the same one that as always existed, to keep the discussion as civil as possible and as personal attack free as possible.
May 4th, 2008 at 3:47 pm@ #62 Truthseeker -
I totally agree, this two party system is totally killing the USA.
May 5th, 2008 at 2:57 pm