Mayor calls Wood County Poachers and Pirates…
The Mayor of Toledo Ohio, Carty Finkbeiner made a statement today on the issue of Wood County Economic Development and Regionalism. This has been reported in part by our local media, I’ve obtained a copy of the prepared written statement and have provided it in full below the fold:
The most prominent buzzword in economic development circles these days is “regionalism”. Cleveland newspaper columnists regularly complain about the lack of regional cooperation there. Akron and Canton newspapers chide their respective cities and each other over cooperating for the good of the region.
I support a regional approach to economic development. Working together, Toledo, Lucas County, Wood County, and Fulton County can all add jobs, payroll taxes, and improve the quality of life. However, poaching jobs from each other is not REAL economic development.
Wood County officials, rather than develop their tax base by attracting NEW employers to the region, regularly try to pirate businesses from Toledo. Owens Illinois is the most recent and prominent example. Wood County worked hard to lure OI to Levis Commons and were successful. If it weren’t for the hard work of a number of economic development people in the city and the desire of Fifth Third Bank to maintain an urban presence, Toledo’s signature building would be empty.
When word began to circulate that Toledo was looking to replace the aging Sports Arena, They tried to construct their own arena. The debacle that now sits, partially constructed, at the Golden Triangle is the result.
Now, Wood County officials are coming after another major Toledo employer. I’m not going to name that employer right now, but I can tell you that Wood County officials are making a strong pitch to them. We are too, and Toledo has everything this employer needs to remain economically strong and eventually expand. But Wood County continues to pursue them.
I’m curious as to how Wood County officials would feel if our development team made unsolicited overtures to First Solar, or if we were to try to get the DaimlerChrysler Stamping Plant to come to the new Jeep campus. Urban areas like Toledo have more tools and more abatements to offer than rural areas like Wood County.
I will not cooperate with Wood County to send another Toledo employer down there. I will not sign off on the waiver of the creation of an Enterprise Zone Tax Abatement, and I will lobby hard for the Director of the Ohio Department of Development to uphold that decision.
My message to Wood County is this: Cooperation does not involve you poaching businesses from Toledo. Work with us to bring NEW businesses and NEW jobs to the region. Right now, all you are accomplishing is robbing the urban center of the region of its employers and its tax base. Slowly disassembling Toledo’s economy will hurt Wood County communities like Northwood and Rossford. Eventually, that pain will spread to Bowling Green as the whole region begins to stagnate.
Let’s work together to continue the growth in our region while not shifting our existing tax base. In Minnesota, poaching of jobs between cities became such a problem that the state government enacted legislation that requires revenue sharing between cities and suburbs. Perhaps that is the solution to this migration of jobs from cities to greenfields.
I challenge Wood County to work with us to improve the region’s economy for the betterment of all our residents.
On one point, I agree with Carty. “Poaching” business is not the creation of new business. However, everything else that I argued in my blog holds.
If it is more profitable to do business in location B as opposed to location A, it’s not a question of “poaching”. The business is the one who makes the decision, not the city/county.
Luke
July 19th, 2007 at 8:03 pmLet’s suppose Carty wants a business located in say Cleveland to move to Toledo. How would that not be poaching?
Competition between Wood and Lucas Counties is good. It might force the City of Toledo, the County seat to get it’s act together.
Businesses move to locations that gives them better offers or is better suited for the goals of the business. May the best man win.
July 19th, 2007 at 8:19 pmThe topic of poaching has been discussed for quite some time in other parts of Ohio and even here in Lucas County. The term poaching is pretty well established as what is happening.
Some communities have tried to create non-poaching agreements.
More recently, Cities agree they shalt not steal, so I’d have to disagree with you and Brian Wilson that this is not poaching. One of the advantages of regionalism to some is the elimination of poaching…
The difference between a company deciding of their own accord to move and a county or city going to them and offering them incentives to move is at issue. No one is saying businesses have to stay in a certain area, it’s the manner in which it is done that results in the “poaching” description. Some don’t feel that non-poaching agreements work but the actual practice does happen and in the end all it does is cost taxpayers more money if two localities get into a bidding war as far as offering incentives.
I think personally that the City should be very careful in offering incentives or abatements to companies that demonstrate they have no loyalty to the area and instead concentrate on those who do stay here and plan to expand. Regionalism is only a solution when all parties agree to focus on what’s best for the overall region.
I didn’t listen to Brian, but did he play the whole speech or only take selected sound bites?
July 19th, 2007 at 8:38 pm“I support a regional approach to economic development. Working together, Toledo, Lucas County, Wood County, and Fulton County can all add jobs, payroll taxes, and improve the quality of life.”
And then…”However, poaching jobs from each other is not REAL economic development.”
Work together but then publicly criticize an alleged partner. Sour grapes?
Video clip;
July 19th, 2007 at 8:49 pmhttp://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=local&id=5492947
That’s why I listed his full statement so that everyone would have the full context of his statement.
Poaching jobs from each other is not real economic development, it’s merely shuffling the same jobs to different parts of the region.
When you consider the video you shared showed Councilman Frank Szollosi agreeing with the Mayor? That alone tells you something.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:01 pmLisa – I, too, had the text of his statement by virtue of my guest hosting on WSPD tonight. However, the clips of what he said are not an exact match to what was written. That’s not unusual for a speaker to not follow the written statement precisely, especially for a person as experienced as the mayor. But the sound clips of him speaking were ‘more intense’ than the words on paper.
I don’t know if Eye on Toledo will be podcast with all these clips…
But his statements about O-I and the Rossford arena are not entirely accurate – I covered that as part of my guest host duties…
July 19th, 2007 at 9:12 pmMaggie, I understand a written speech is not always followed, what I asked Luke was the entire statement by the Mayor played as recorded or were just clips selected. If the entire speech was recorded and played/available on line then it would be easy to compare. The same reason I put press releases on the blog as they are sent is the same reason I try to put full statements on rather than just selected clips. It then gives everyone the chance to see all of the picture rather than parts of it.
Eye on Toledo does not have podcasts listed on the front page of the WSPD website, I thought they only did podcasts of some of Fred and Brian’s shows.
The Mayor’s comments on OI and Rossford aside, poaching does happen and it has been a concern in other parts of Ohio and it is an impediment to regional cooperation when it happens. That’s what I disagreed with Luke on, is it wrong or is it just a dog eat dog world where it’s okay to do this can be argued both ways. It probably could be said that the reaction to poaching depends on whether it is the poacher or the poachee talking…
July 19th, 2007 at 9:31 pmLet’s suppose Carty wants a business located in say Cleveland to move to Toledo. How would that not be poaching?
Competition between Wood and Lucas Counties is good. That might force the City of Toledo, the County seat to get it’s act together.
Businesses move to locations where they can get the best deal or are best suited for the goals of the business.
May the best man win.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:36 pmI agree with the poaching being wrong…but when a company goes to another community and says ‘we might like to move here,’ that’s not poaching. Carty says Wood County is poaching…Wood County says they NEVER approach a Toledo company first, but they will respond when a Toledo company comes to them.
In this case, they can both be ‘correct’ as it is conceivable Carty considers any encouragement of such a move ‘poaching’ while Wood County can be honest in saying they never approach a Toledo company.
As for comparing the statement to the quoted word, it was easy to see, when having both, that he did follow the statement, but tended to ‘elaborate’ in a couple of areas…I will ask WSPD if they can put tonight’s EonT up for the podcast…or at least put their sound bytes out there so everyone can listen.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:40 pmIt isn’t a good idea to blame someone/ area for failures in development and retention. The “blame” is sitting squarely on the shoulders of Toledo. OBC strikes again.
Carty is not alone at the threshold of blame, this has been a city wide lack of effort that has caused this. Taxation, gimmes and all that play a part, but the consistantly poor leadership and devout chastizing are far more key in the long run.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:55 pmWood County may be saying that but the impression that was given even with the wording of a Blade article on OI leaving was:
Luring typically isn’t something done when it’s the Company who comes to you and says “Hey I want to move here”. Realistically most communities accused of poaching state that they did not poach, hence the creation of non-poaching agreements are used by some to make sure everyone is on the same page.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pmLisa – on O-I, I know that they approached Perrysburg and asked for a proposal for what kind of assistance could be offered if they decided to move. Perrysburg responded and their city council approved the package they offered.
I can’t help the wording that the Blade chose, but I know that no one from Perrysburg went knocking on Steve McCracken’s door saying – ‘hey – leave Toledo and come over here.’ In O-I’s case, Wood County responded to them.
Are you thinking that a response to an inquiry can constitute ‘poaching’ under some conditions?
BTW, I got to see the two ‘proposals’ … Perrysburg’s was professional, comprehensive and complete. Toledo’s was less than a page-and-a-half, with an offer to ‘work together.’ Well, O-I knew that Toledo wanted to ‘work together’ which is why they asked for a proposal. The difference in the two documents was striking…
And, Carty wasn’t mayor at the time OI moved, as I mentioned several times when on the air tonight, so he didn’t know the details of what Toledo did, and he isn’t to blame for their leaving…
July 19th, 2007 at 10:04 pmSuppose a company announced they were pulling out of Toledo and were moving to Los Angeles. Would the mayor respond differently?
July 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pmChad are you suggesting that Carty should have not said anything and then had another company be “lured” out of Toledo? Then the cries would be “OMG why didn’t he do anything to STOP them!”. I don’t know the variation in the written versus the delivered speech so it’s possible he could have be more tactful, perhaps this is a warm up so that we can expect abatements/incentives before City Council to keep this latest company. Toledo has to not only attract new business but to keep what it has…It is hard to battle the “grass is always greener” syndrome.
The reality is NWO either needs to learn to work together or fail as other areas of Ohio get their act together and learn that what benefits one, benefits all.
Jay, that’s an interesting question because the reality is alot of poaching happens. Unless it is a brand new factory being built in an additional area chances are jobs are being taken from one part of the state or the country from another. Why isn’t that treated the same way? That creates another interesting discussion…Is all poaching wrong or only certain types of poaching? Is all poaching wrong or only wrong when your area is the one being poached? I remember when this was discussed in NEO a year ago, it was a very interesting discussion similar to what we are having here.
All I can say for certain is that poaching does exist as a term and some communities have non-poaching agreements as the basis of their regional attempts at Economic Development.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:08 pmMaggie, I remember that Carty was not Mayor then and perhaps that is part of the perception issue related to the poaching, I wondered about the Blade as well, but that could also be part of the problem since the perception by quite a bit of our media at the time leaned towards Perrysburg “taking” OI rather than OI deciding to leave. Yet, one wonders if OI would have left without the 6 million dollars incentives. I imagine at times what would be the end result if a majority of these abatements and incentives stopped, especially as a former Convergys Employee, we all know how well that worked out for Toledo. That of course is another whole discussion as to do the ends justify the means when these huge offers are made…
I also don’t think that the Rossford arena from what I know about it was developed with the purpose in mind of replacing the Sports Arena though I think it’s obvious it could have had an impact on a new arena if both could not be sustainable.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:14 pmLisa – such non-poaching agreements usually involve sharing tax revenues…Isn’t the property that O-I went to part of the tax-sharing area Perrysburg has with Toledo? I don’t remember…
and the way to keep companies in Toledo is not to lambaste where they’ve decided to move. If we don’t want to lose companies, then we should change OURSELVES – not criticize other communities who are doing what we’d do if the situation was reversed.
This happens in lots of circumstances – blame the competition and threaten them in some way rather than admit we need to be better so that we can successfully compete with other communities.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:15 pmLisa – You wonder if O-I would have left without the $6 million P-burg offered…but Toledo offered more:
“Toledo, with help from Lucas County, has offered O-I an incentive package estimated to be worth $9 million in an effort to keep the company from relocating and taking about 340 jobs to Perrysburg.”
…money wasn’t the only issue.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:21 pmMaggie I don’t remember if that was part of the tax sharing either, only that Perrysburg and Perrysburg Township had some issues regarding the OI situation as well.
I agree blame doesn’t work, but I also don’t think this competition between two local areas both trying to waste tax payer dollars in a bidding war helps either.
I’m not totally defending Carty’s statements but I do understand the reasoning behind it and at least from what I know so far it’s not a Louis Escobar Fifth Third bank type comment. I’m sure if you asked some in Oregon they’d feel the City of Toledo poached when it came to how the deal for the Coking Plant was handled since until the boundaries were challenged it appeared more on Oregon’s land than Toledo’s, they worked it out but Oregon did end up with less of a share than first thought.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pmWhat bothers me the most is why Finkbeiner made this into a big media event? If he is so big on working together, then why not exercise a bit of diplomacy behind closed doors?
He seems to be declaring a war before making an attempt at peace and cooperation.
I think it has the appearance of a stunt like he pulled at last month’s Town Hall meeting having a fit when something is not going to his plan.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:28 pmgreat example, Lisa…the Coking Plant is probably a better example than O-I of ‘poaching’…
July 19th, 2007 at 10:28 pmMaggie, I know Toledo offered more so obviously that additional 3 million dollars wasn’t enough to keep them in Toledo. Yet I do wonder if they would have moved had there been no incentive/abatements…We can’t know for sure but it seems likely it would not have happened.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:32 pmI agree with you, Jayott.
Maggie: You have a great voice for radio.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:34 pmLisa – all I can say is that my discussion with the CEO of O-I didn’t leave me with that impression. There were so many other factors that they considered…the money was icing on the cake, sure, but I think they would have moved even without the money…
July 19th, 2007 at 10:35 pmthank you, Lily White!
July 19th, 2007 at 10:36 pmThanks Maggie, it’s like I said, poaching seems to vary as to who is the poacher versus who is the poachee.
They have been talking Jay but I’d hazard a guess that this latest news about Wood County potentially offering more incentives to encourage another move out made that seem moot. For regionalism to work all sides have to put aside the “me first” aspect, that’s part of the reason why it’s so hard to pull off.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:37 pmMaggie, too bad the taxpayers of Perrsyburg didn’t know they could have gotten OI without having to offer 6 million.
(smile)
July 19th, 2007 at 10:38 pmI wonder what company is being “poached” right now? Carty alluded to it, but he wouldn’t tell.
July 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pmFed-Ex
July 19th, 2007 at 11:02 pmWell if they left Reynolds Rd, that would certainly add to the current blight.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pmI’m also thinking of the Steak ‘n Shake waitress who told me she lives on tips from the Fed Ex employees.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:19 pmThat’s the other side of this type of thing happening is all of the other businesses that are affected when a company moves.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:21 pmI just wish the Mayor were putting out a positive message to keep them rather than what sounds like an unattractive whine. And I don’t see how we can get a regional team spirit going when one of the players disses another in the media.
Personally, I think the Mayor needs some of Lisa’s PR skills.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:48 pmIt could be argued that it’s hard to develop a regional team spirit when one is trying to undercut the other. I totally understand his frustration, especially after OI and the whole Bass Pro thing that Toledo lost out on. I do however agree that many you made a very valid point, if Fed Ex were to go to Wood County it’s not very fair of Wood County to say “sorry we won’t take from Toledo” unless there is a better understanding of what Toledo/Lucas County and Wood County will do to work together.
Who knows, maybe this can be the catalyst for serious discussion as to how to work towards a better relationship, though I do agree whoever wrote his statement could have spent a bit more time on being positive while still getting a few “pirates” and “poaching” in.
Thanks to the Mayor we definitely had a great discussion here and it sounds like Maggie had a good show on the topic too – I should have kicked Aubrey and Miguel’s brother out of my living room where they were watching Titanic together to be able to listen…
July 19th, 2007 at 11:58 pmThat was like the ultimate Jerry Springer’s “Final Thoughts.” I loved it.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:34 amSuppose I’m in junior high and I lose my really hot boyfriend to another girl. Will I win him back — or attact another hot boyfriend — if I make a public fuss about how that mean girl stole my boyfriend?
More to the point: did she really steal him, or did I simply lose him because I didn’t measure up to what the other girl had to offer?
I think I’d pout in private, then put on some lipstick and stuff some Kleenex in my bra before the next cute guy decides to dump me.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:38 amToledo/Lucas County are to blame here, especially The mayor. He is the most unfriendly business mayor I have ever seen. He continues to drive business out of Toledo. As far as Bass Pro, He made a complete Azz of himself trying to lure them, when Wood County just sat back and watched. They offered them a good Location with no rah-rah BS. The Mayor talks about urban sprawl, that is own fault Southwyck, Statuzenberger, Private Ambulance, Towing Companies, its just crazy.
Then Lucas County tries to build an over priced Arena that they don’t have all the money for, and they continue to lie about it, and beg business to advertise there at rates that are higher than NHL and NBA teams. This project should be privatly funded no tax dollars. Lucas county has the highest hotel tax in the state of OH, boy that will attract people to stay here.
Don’t Blame Wood County, Business go to them, I know this for a fact, nobody wants to work with Toledo/ Lucas County and the bullies, especially since Maggie left, the only one who really knew what she was doing!!
July 20th, 2007 at 1:07 amThanks Kurt, maybe I should have my own tv show next (smile)
Lily, nice analogy…
July 20th, 2007 at 1:11 am“… and the whole Bass Pro thing that Toledo lost out on.”
Hold on. Toledo never lost Bass Pro because Toledo was never in the running for Bass Pro. Northern Wood County was the first choice for Bass Pro. If you recall, it was Toledo who kidnapped the Bass Pro president, or whoever was visiting here, and took him on a helicopter ride of Toledo. That Bass Pro dude was here to see Wood County, not Toledo.
From Carty’s prepared statement:
“Wood County officials, rather than develop their tax base by attracting NEW employers to the region …”
What about Bass Pro and everything that’s planned around it? That’s new. And Carty tried to steal the Bass Pro deal from Wood County. So much for regional cooperation from the C-man. What a hypocrite Carty is.
But because of the joint economic development zone agreement between Toledo and Rossford, Toledo will still make money from Bass Pro and all the other development near Bass Pro.
From a June 14, 2006 Toledo Free Press story:
“Guided by attorney and former mayoral candidate Keith Wilkowski, Toledo and Rossford formed a joint economic development zone agreement in 1992. To fulfill the agreement, Toledo provides water to a designated area in Rossford. In return, Rossford pays Toledo for the water services and gives Toledo a substantial portion of income tax revenue — 27 cents of every dollar generated from employee income tax and net business profits.”
Oh, back in the spring, didn’t Toledo City Council grant Carty’s wish of stealing business from private ambulance owners? Real business-friendly. Of course, this terrible action was justified because other cities do it.
Hasn’t Carty bragged when a business moved from the suburb into Toledo?
Remember not too long ago when Carty said:
“No one contacted me and asked me if I could be of assistance in any way. They’re bailing on Toledo.”
Carty was ripping on the Zenobia Shriners of Northwest Ohio. That’s Northwest Ohio. The Shriners serve the region. They are remaining in the region. Instead of thanking and praising the Shriners for all the work they have done for so many yeas, Carty criticizes them. Carty names a street after former fire chief Mike Bell, but Carty pisses on the Shriners.
Carty’s hissy fit on Thursday simply gives the other communities, especially the ones in Wood County, more reason to laugh at Toledo and Carty.
Carty should ask his good friend Larry Dillon about all that development called Levis Commons. Does Carty consider Larry Dillon, the Marina District and Southwyck developer, part of the problem because of Larry’s sprawl development in Wood County? Where do you think the new OI is? Would OI have moved to an empty field if Larry’s Levis Commons did not exist?
And how about the dueling rib-offs? From my July 16, 2006 comment:
“This rib-off fiasco is a small example of why other communities don’t trust Toledo nor want to work with Toledo on unigov/regionalism ideas. The downtown rib-off moved to Maumee. Instead of Toledo working with Maumee to promote the region, Toledo decides to create its own to compete with Maumee. So much for co-operating with other communities. Toledo doesn’t yet grasp the concept of Lake Erie West.”
“Remember, the rib-off that moved from Toledo to Maumee is called the Northwest Ohio Rib-off. It wasn’t called the Toledo rib-off, and it’s not now called the Maumee rib-off. It’s Northwest Ohio, but apparently, Toledo doesn’t realize that Northwest Ohio includes other towns besides Toledo.”
“Toledo only thinks of itself when it starts talking about the benefits of unigov or regionalism. If Toledo cannot work with another community on something as trivial as a rib-off, how can Toledo be trusted to work fairly on more complicated projects?”
United Health Services had valid reasons for choosing a new location in the fall of 2005. Yet, this was obviously too much for Carty to handle in 2006.
My guess is few if anyone outside Toledo trusts Toledo officials when the topic of unigov (county-wide) or regionalism (multiple counties) comes up. Why should other communities trust Toledo?
Something else Carty needs to think about: population loss.
From the July 8, 2007 Toledo Blade story:
“Tuffy Associates Corp. is in the midst of moving its 42-person national headquarters office from 5577 Airport Hwy. in Toledo to 7150 Granite Circle in Sylvania Township. Chief Financial Officer Karen Vellequette said only two employees reside in the city. “The rest of us live in Michigan, Perrysburg, Waterville, the suburbs. Some of them don’t get credit for the [2.25 percent] Toledo [wage] tax,” Ms. Vellequette said. Moving out of Toledo effectively results in a pay raise for most of the firm’s employees.”
In the June 2006 Blade story about Toledo’s continual population loss, Frank Szollosi said:
“It’s an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo.”
But Council passes a new city tax this past spring that some call a garbage fee. And of course, we know about the questionable spending on what some call unnecessary projects. And don’t overlook the struggling Toledo Public School system as a reason why people and businesses move to the burbs. It all adds up over time.
Carty blaming Wood County for Toledo’s problems is a deflective tactic. The blame goes to past and present Toledo officials for creating the opportunity for northern Wood County to become the hottest development area in northwest Ohio.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:11 amCould it be that Wood County has something to offer in the way of attractiveness as related to businesses?
Could it be that Wood County is more progressive and less tumultuous that Lucas County?
What are the reasons that national companies are setting up shop there and not here.
“When you consider the video you shared showed Councilman Frank Szollosi agreeing with the Mayor? That alone tells you something.”
I was confused by the councilman appearing.
What did he or the rest that appeared add to it? That it is not right what some entity did or did not do?
And what about McNamara’s comment?
Does the city need a full time economic development head and not a cheerleader that is not so good so far with a track record of bringing and sustaining businesses in Toledo?
Could it be that the comments that our Cheerleader has made over his terms in office have made the decision to look elsewhere easy?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:24 am“The reality is NWO either needs to learn to work together or fail as other areas of Ohio get their act together and learn that what benefits one, benefits all.”
Right and we could expect our administration and council to do that.
And as the mystery company is still in Northwest Ohio do we still benefit?
Is it wise for the Mayor to be having press conferences criticizing the communities around us for some alleged action or is it more wise for him to maybe work behind the scenes or better yet let the people who are the professional staff do the work they are paid to do and get the Mayor to stop micromanaging.
Businesses come and go and what is being done to make Toledo more attractive?
One thought I have had about the new bridge; how easy it is to drive right past the city and head to where the action is.
What incentive is there to get off one of the ramps in the city? Restaurants? Easy on and easy on access? Hotels?
July 20th, 2007 at 7:31 am“Let’s work together to continue the growth in our region while not shifting our existing tax base. In Minnesota, poaching of jobs between cities became such a problem that the state government enacted legislation that requires revenue sharing between cities and suburbs.”
http://www.naiop.org/governmentaffairs/growth/rtbrs.cfm
http://www.deed.state.mn.us/bizdev/JobzNewsNovember2005.htm
July 20th, 2007 at 7:42 amnope Lisa, not saying he should have remained silent. I’m saying that laying the blame on someone else is not a good way to find a resolution. The poaching of delapilated cities has long been a practice in this an other parts of the world. It’s called survival of the fittest. It’s not good for one community to kick a sister community while it’s down, but likewise it’s not good for the host community to lay open the wound so that the bleeding can be done.
The approach to development and retention in Toledo has long been sour. We must shift gears to a pro-business format. That means choping the red tape out of the picture, realizing that not every single thing that should be done will generate income.
To win the economic game we’re going to have to give up trying to make a buck on every aspect and concentrate on the long term goal of stable income and reliable resources.
In this case, the Mayor inserted his foot in mouth, again! He called out a profitable companion of our City as a evil entity. This is not a way to win friends and influence positive assistance. Going on the attack without filling the amory is dangerous and foul. His launguage has been over the top and not a positive reflection of leadership. It shows a man who is quickly loosing his ability to be effective, a city that has lost faith and a spiral into oblivion for our economic ability.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:51 amLemme see if I get this.
FedEx ground wants to expand. Somewhere between 80 and 100 acres.
“We are in the process of identifying a new site or a site for a new, larger facility. That process is ongoing and includes a number of locations we’re considering. My understanding is there is a possibility of expanding where we are. That is one option that’s being considered,” Mr. Westrick said.
FedEx Ground ships parcels by ground in the United States and Canada. The company currently has 29 U.S. hubs.
Mr. Westrick said the goal is to identify a site by September and to have the new hub operational a year later.
The site would be 80 to 100 acres.
FedEx Ground’s present site is about 33 acres. Adjacent to that site is an undeveloped parcel of 50 acres owned by Louisville Title Agency.”
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/NEWS16/707200342/-1/NEWS
And the Mayor gets on TV and blames Wood County.
“Council President Rob Ludeman said the city acquired additional land in Capital Commons so FedEx Ground would be able to expand.
He said he was aware of land being shown in Perrysburg Township to FedEx officials several months ago.
“To offer incentives to woo someone from Lucas County to Wood County doesn’t make sense,” Mr. Ludeman said.”
Our City Council President is also a real estate agent and it appears he makes no sense, at least to me.
If a business is looking for expansion and shop around and is offered something to move they should;
A)scuttle their plans for expansion
July 20th, 2007 at 8:03 amB)remain loyal to the area
C)improve the bottom line
Carty also handed out, at his press conference, this article by the Pittburgh Post-Gazette. His idea of ‘regional cooperation’ is very similar to the uni-gov concepts discussed in the past…The article extolls the benefits of Minnesota’s regional property tax sharing system. Contrary to what the Mayor said, this article implies that it wasn’t a ’state-imposed’ solution…
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04046/273339.stm
July 20th, 2007 at 8:15 amfyi…WSPD is going to put up the pod cast of last night’s Eye on Toledo. Should be up around noon-ish under their ‘hot button’ topics.
Many of the sound bytes from Carty were played during the show, so you’ll be able to listen to what he said along with Lisa’s posting of his prepared statement.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:59 am“His idea of ‘regional cooperation’ is very similar to the uni-gov concepts discussed in the past…”
Cooperation is a mutual concept.
Our Mayor has shown that when things do not go the way he feels they should, he comments and quite frankly some of the comments he chooses to make are not helpful.
Frustration is natural but also researching into why a company is thinking about leaving should be done and then review what can be done but to lash out at a neighborhoring county and then saying cooperation is key is counter productive.
Should he have said something?
Sure. Something along the lines of; we are actively working to keep this fine corporation here in the area to provide good jobs and so on.
But then again this is the same Mayor who campaigned to keep Costco from the city.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:00 amIt’s been an interesting discussion here. We appreciate that.
I do have to comment on the coking plant issue since I’ve been on both sides of that one and know it intimately.
Toledo did not “poach” anything from Oregon. Somebody somewhere did not update the county maps to reflect the actual border between Oregon and Toledo at Port of Toledo Facility 2 (the Coal Docks). Many years ago (pre-dating the organization of Oregon as a municipality), the border was established at Otter Creek.
However, Otter Creek has been rerouted a few times since then to accomodate various incarnations of what is now CSX. Toledo officials (correctly) determined that what the Port Authority and Oregon officials thought was the City of Oregon was actually City of Toledo. The proposed site of the Coke Plant straddles the border.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:33 amDang…I should have checked this post again sooner! Honestly, Lisa, I don’t recall if he played the whole thing or not. I was kind of zoned out for a while until I heard the Mayor’s voice and turned up my radio. I don’t know how much I missed, but I saw the whole thing on the news last night and what I heard on WSPD wasn’t too edited – if it was edited at all.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:34 amJr, I meant “lost out on” as in competed with Wood County for and did not get, in the context of looking at the competition aspect of jobs between Wood County and Toledo.
Brian, I know the coking plant issue was because of old maps and property that Oregon thought they owned belonging to Toledo, but the perception to some in Oregon at the time was that Toledo was taking this from them. That’s what I was referring to, that the perception at the time. Now most of that seems to be worked out except for a few council members that don’t seem happy with the arrangement.
I’m glad you are enjoying the discussion, I am too.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:58 amLuke, thanks!
July 20th, 2007 at 10:00 amLisa,
I understand why people felt the way they did. I shared those feelings when I workd at the Port Authority because it seemed that all of the hard work had been done, and Toledo came in at the end to “take” some of the revenue as well as some of the credit. That was during the Ford Administration. I can tell you that Mayor Marge Brown did a yeoman’s job of working with U.S. Coking and deserves credit as does Matt Sapara at the Port Authority who kept this project alive when I was certain it was dead.
However, contrary to my (and everybody else’s) perception, the hard work was not done in 2004. We’re still working on it and Toledo is now a partner with Oregon and the Port Authority — not an obstructionist.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:27 am“I do have to comment on the coking plant issue since I’ve been on both sides of that one and know it intimately.”
And what of this;
“COLUMBUS — “Toledo residents may have moved closer to benefiting from steam power generated by the proposed $800 million FDS Coke Plant. Under an amendment added to Ohio’s just-passed state budget, the project could qualify for federal tax-exempt financing if it sells energy generated by the plant to a tax-exempt municipal utility rather than to FirstEnergy Corp… ‘It’s the logical thing to do,” state Rep. Peter J. Ujvagi (D., Toledo) said. ‘If we are going to take some environmental hit, then the community and citizens ought to be in a position to benefit from lower-cost energy considering we’re one of the highest-cost energy areas of the state,’” Jim Provance, Toledo Blade.”
“tax-exempt municipal utility”?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:45 amWhat of it?
U.S. Coking officials considered and continue to consider building a co-generation plant that uses the steam generated by the coking plant to power their operation as well as to provide energy to the area. I’m not sure of the siting of the co-gen facility, but I think I recall the entire thing was on the Toledo side.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:02 amBrian I agree now that more people are working together and from what I’ve heard and read Mayor Marge Brown was a huge part of this. I also would agree it seems most people do not view Toledo as obstructionist, I’ve listened to the audio recordings of the Oregon City Council and their Committee of the Whole meetings and it does sound as if most of the Council feels the same way as the Mayor. There is still quite a bit to too, that’s also true, even after the permit scenario is solved then the construction phase I’m sure will have a few twists and turns. That seems to happen with almost all large projects.
NC, I believe Toledo took steps to create a tax-exempt municipal utility – I searched and found this on the May 29, 2007 City Council Agenda:
Amend TMC Ch. 949, establish Toledo Public Power for municipal electric utility
July 20th, 2007 at 11:07 amBrian, you say “credit” … I say “blame”.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:11 pmLily White,
I guess it depends on your point of view. . .
July 20th, 2007 at 12:13 pmFor the record, most of Maggie’s show from last night is now available at The Hot Button on the WSPD website.
And don’t drag me into the argument, I’m just a sports guy/producer.
Back into the shadows for me.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:27 pm““tax-exempt municipal utility”?”
“What of it?”
“NC, I believe Toledo took steps to create a tax-exempt municipal utility – I searched and found this on the May 29, 2007 City Council Agenda:
Amend TMC Ch. 949, establish Toledo Public Power for municipal electric utility ”
What is the purpose of a Municipal Electric Utility in Toledo?
Does the administration believe that it can sell power to the citizens at a profitable level and compete with Toledo Edison?
July 20th, 2007 at 12:29 pmShaggy! Sorry dude, once you post you are automatically dragged in (hehehe)
Thanks for the update, I’m heading over now to listen.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:33 pmThe dangling of lures…..Toledo does it or did it…
“The city of Toledo, Ohio got in the incentives game early.
In 1978, city officials gave Owens-Illinois $24 million, a generous sum in those days, to stay in town. Unfortunately, the firm was sold to a New York company several years later, and hundreds of the jobs that Toledo thought it had bought were cut.
A nearly identical break would be offered to Owens Corning in 1994 to keep it from moving. The city’s development director, Holly Wiedman, said the break was worth it for P.R. reasons. “[Losing Owens Corning] would have been a black mark on Toledo that would have gotten more national publicity than we would have wanted.” Company officials responded that the tax breaks were key to keeping the firm downtown, although, they said, it might have just moved somewhere else within Toledo without them.
Toledo, struggling to maintain its shrinking industrial base, was long an aggressive player in the incentives game. When the state authorized an Enterprise Zone program in 1983, Toledo was quick to take advantage.
Local officials touted the tax breaks as necessary and effective. “Due to the present cost of doing business,” said Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, “Toledo must utilize any and all incentives available to keep business from leaving the city and to lure business from other states and outside areas.”
http://www.cfed.org/focus.m?parentid=34&siteid=1629&id=1657#1
July 20th, 2007 at 1:08 pmThe Mayor thinks it’s wrong for Wood County to [allegedly] pirate, raid, and pilfer then why does he do it himself to the citizens of Toledo? Namely, the garbage tax. Sorry, LR not offtopic, but merely a seque. Just who is doing the finger-pointing and being a goody-two-shoes now?
I’ve got to hand it to the Mayor and City Council for being very clever by tying trash tax to the water and sewer service in order to pirate, pilfer, and pocket our money to pay for parks, paths and potholes.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:56 pmJay, it’s related so don’t worry about it and at times what a thread starts out covering changes as it progresses and we learn more and I never discourage discussion. I would suggest though that while that could be deemed by some as pilfering, City Council is the one who gave final approval of the hike in fees. Had a majority voted no, the Mayor would have been forced to look at other options.
Maggie, after listening to the audio from yesterday and the additional material you provided while on air, I would agree with you that the spoken speech was a bit more “passionate” than the written one. I do still believe that poaching can be wrong if communities are planning on developing regional economic development yet I also understand if a company is the one who first solicits the idea of moving that most Cities/Counties are going to pursue it.
On the Rossford arena aspect Maggie, the information you covered from the past on that does indicate more research should be done on a previous position/statements before new statements are made. That’s one area where we are at an advantage as we can bring it up to compare and contrast.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pmIn my job, I have large quantities of marketing material that needs printed runs into the thousands of dollars. Normally, we go with the same printer who is very good to us, the quality isn’t always perfect, but they’re dependable and competititve. However, on occasion I bid jobs out to a couple other printers to see what kind of price (deal) I get back to see if my main printer is being honest with their quote.
Often, I will have a company who is obviously desperate for my business bid, knowing that they will take a little bit of a loss to hook me.
Would you say that if I do go with the desperate printer to save some money, that they “poached” business from the main printer? Loyalty plays somewhat of a role in my decision but ultimatly my job is to get the best quality product for the best possible price; should I pay more for printing simply because we’ve been with the main printer for x years?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:13 pmIn the case of the FedEx move; is there poaching or is just sour grapes and the inability of the city, administration, to retain the terminal?
The Mayor took the airwaves and made the claim that Wood County is some how taking businesses from Toledo.
Is this even correct in light of the statements now in the media?
And is Toledo not part of the region and if so why does the administration continue to paint itself as some how separate from the region.
And in the article I posted a url about there is a statement that city of Toledo failed to visit and follow up on enterprize set up to create jobs and so on and what in today’s administration is there any hope that the same troubles will not be repeated when the administration is not aware that the Erie Street cannot be sold, after it was listed, because of federal funds that were used.
Where is the confidence in our leadership that they can and will be competent and be fully informed and not simply lash out when a county, that is part of the region, has its ducks in a row and mean while Toledo considers itself some how left out, again and again and again.
Is Councilman McNamara right about having an Economic Development head when the current head strikes out so often?
July 20th, 2007 at 5:55 pmYou know Lisa, I was once told by some big hot-shot political consultant from New York City who is working for one of the 2008 candidates, that for every single comment on a blogger’s blog, there are at least 10 readers. So judging by this one… you’ve had 650 people read this post.
He also said if the blogger is getting 2 comments per week, than you better watch out. hehe
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:06 amSorry about showing up to the party late, but I have this nagging question that just begs for an answer.
Poaching Schmoaching, is it true that O-I purchased the land that they currently occupy in Wood County decades ago, with the expressed intent/purpose of building their future corporate campus there?
July 26th, 2007 at 8:35 pmThis is a great discussion. Everyone needs to understand that Fed-Es’s selection was based exclusively on logistics, not on any public agency having a better or worse proposal. This expanded site is going to serve all of Michigan and a small part of Ohio. As a result, the company thought that a site directly on 75 was more appropriate.
August 1st, 2007 at 8:53 pm