Dan Burns former business manager Toledo Public Schools indicted
03 Dec 2009
According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Daniel Burns, former Cleveland schools administrator, indicted:
A former top Cleveland schools official approved $160,000 in bogus printing equipment purchases and service fees, then shared the money with a vendor he had done business with for years, prosecutors say.
A Cuyahoga County grand jury on Thursday indicted Daniel Burns, the schools’ former chief operating officer, on charges of theft in office, tampering with records and racketeering.
John Briggle, of Toledo-based Superior Offset Supplies, was indicted on charges of theft, tampering with records and racketeering. The men are scheduled to be arraigned on Dec. 17.
If the theft of copy machines was involved, would he be charged with duplicity?
(…. sorry…. couldn’t help it).
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:37 pmThe pigeons might come home to roost although possibly not where they wanted too. While Fran Lawrence was quick to connect Mrs. Fisher with the exit of Sanders and his crew by publishing this quote on Toledo Federation of Teachers stationary before the school board election by former Toledo superintendent Eugene Sanders__
” Clearly, as I spoke with these individuals and others, it was Mrs. Fisher’s lack of leadership, lack of appreciation for their work, lack of vision for the district, that was part of the reason they sought to make a career move,” Mr. Sanders said. “This is not my usual style and this is not sour grapes on my part, but I think the community needs to know why these people are in Cleveland and not Toledo.”
__some members of the crew were being investigated for criminal activities.
The Cleveland article also mentions that some of the individuals named as being Toledo administrators who supposedly left Toledo are now under investigation by the State auditors in Cleveland with the help of Cuyahoga County Sheriff’s detectives for misuse of funds and other allegations of fraud and criminal activities. Ms. Fisher was the lone board member that voted against issues that were not financially transparent to the community.She will be missed.
Some people in Cleveland requested that those “stellar” administrators from Toledo return home. Well Fran and those from Cleveland might get their wish.
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:48 pmI don’t think it’s fair to blame all of those from Toledo who went to Cleveland, those that were involved and indicted? Yes, but to try to paint everyone with the same brush is exactly part of the problem in our community. If it’s proven that Sanders knew about Burns or any of those identified as involved in this? That’s one thing.
I think it’s interesting that Lawrence is focused on but those who act worse than her, seem to get a free skate.
December 4th, 2009 at 2:06 am…birds of a feather…
December 4th, 2009 at 5:05 amActually I think most of those that went to Toledo were involved in a whole lot of shenanigans.
This is from the December 1, 2009 edition of the E-Matrix the Toledo Association of Administrative Personnel (TAAP)newsletter.
Note the last statement – They are accusing Sanders and his gang of manipulating test scores. The 2004 grade cards were very suspicious when the district jumped from academic emergency straight to continuous improvement. Sanders could not have manipulated student enrollment and test data without help within TPS. Some of us suggested to state folks that the results should have been audited. However the the Ohio Department of Education is complicit and also judged on the results of the grade cards. Reminds one of the old adage: fox guarding the hen house.
While others who went with Sanders are not involved in theft, there were many incidents during his 5+ year tenure that were, perhaps not illegal, but were in my opinion unethical.
As to Lawrence, she should be named superintendent of schools – she runs the schools now or at least holds them hostage. The Board could save a lot of money on the search. Let’s hand it over to Lawrence and let her run the district. At least administrators could not use the TFT contracts as excuses for getting anything accomplished.
Lots of stuff does not have to be illegal to be really, really bad for us.
BTW – I personally believe there will be a number of very interesting revelations that will come out of the audit/investigation in Toledo.
This also from the Plain Dealer:
Burns was promoted to Chief Business Manager for TPS under Sanders. It appears from the information we have that all of the fraud occurred in Toledo while Sanders was Superintendent. If Burns sings, this could get real interesting.
The article also talks about the purchases being kept below $50K per instances to avoid competitive bids.
One vendor of TPS had contracts below 50K regularly and received close to $2 million in payments from 2001 through 2005.
One has to wonder about the internal controls at TPS. Where was the Treasurer at the time? The payment authority resides with the Treasurer while purchasing authority resides with the Business Manager. Why did the Treasurer not question all these under 50K purchases to the same vendor(s). State law specifically separates these duties to act as a check and balance mechanism.
So as we move forward, more and more about the past administration leaks out. More is to come of that I have no doubt…..
December 4th, 2009 at 5:36 amLMAO #2 and #5
Don’t tell me that THERE IS or WILL be a price to pay for the “Back-Room Front-Office Gang”? I do recall that someone said on Swampbubbles recently, that TPS/TFT needed to be investigated from some one on the outside. Is this it?
Fran Lawerence for Superintendent?????? LOL
December 4th, 2009 at 9:00 amThe reason that she is focused on so much [IMHO] is because SHE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE TFT,and as a member of a Union {retired] and former executive board member, the buck stops with the PRESIDENT. Nothing goes on with out the approval or knowledge of the Pres. and/or his or her inner circle, that inner circle may include the Superintendent of Schools or his representative {Labor/Management Committee}
Dan Burns–no suprise at all in this mess. If you dig a bit deeper into his career (Cleveland, Toledo, and Rossford schools), you’ll find out he’s been a worthless piece of sh#$ this whole time.
He was one of the most arrogant (yet, inept) School Board members at Rossford. Rossford Bd meetings were a circus compared to other districts, and the joke among administrators was which one of them was going to be ambushed by Dan at the meeting. In most districts, if there was a question about an issue, it would be handled offline. Not with DanO–he’d wait and tag them at meetings all of the time over trivial matters.
Come to think of it, the Rossford Bd of Ed seemed to be a breeding ground for this kind of behavior. Remember the Pawn scandal? Remember the Board member Dave Kleeberger (who managed the band and brought the lawsuit against the board)? This guy wanted to film his son’s band and sporting events and didn’t have the equipment. So, he strongarmed the treasurer and technology department to purchase over $20,000 worth of equipment exclusively for his use, and had it stored at his house. He returned it after a few years, but the word ‘ethics’ never seemed to cross his mind…
As for Dan and his partners in crime, I hope they uncover it all and throw the book at them. Society doesn’t tolerate scammers like him. Good riddance…
December 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pmStuff like this really irritates the snot out of me. And we wonder why schools don’t ever have any money.
December 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pmLisaRenee Says:
“I don’t think it’s fair to blame all of those from Toledo who went to Cleveland, those that were involved and indicted? Yes, but to try to paint everyone with the same brush is exactly part of the problem in our community.”
My conscious is clear that I have not “blamed ALL of those from Toledo that went to Cleveland and that I am not trying to paint everyone with the same brush,”
The words are those of the Cleveland paper.
“The Cleveland article also mentions that some of the individuals named as being Toledo administrators who supposedly left Toledo are now under investigation by the State auditors in Cleveland with the help of Cuyahoga County Sheriff’s detectives for misuse of funds and other allegations of fraud and criminal activities.”
My views are what they are. I see your concerns for Fran Lawrence, but in my research I have not seen any concern for her charges against Darlene Fisher “for being the worst board member ever’ and for here ridicule of Mrs. Fisher to even collect funds to assist teachers on union stationery. This post concerns TPS and all of those at the table. Unions, teachers, mainly students, school programs, Parents etc. Some of us have concerns that the school system has been wounded by some of these powerful people that we speak of, no different than many many articles by others on their points of view where they have not been personally harmed. We are just as passionate about those that we feel are part of the problem at TPS like some people are about coming to their defense. Some show passion about dogs and the Blades attack while some show passion for the harm that we feel some have done to the education system. Concerns for the misuse of power by unions and administrators are not confined to Toledo. If you Google this issue you will find much harsher accusations against the heads of unions across the USA. They are considered to be part of the problem in some cases and part of the solution when they do what is right for the whole school system.
We all feel that those that manipulate the system for power and profit should be called out…if we are wrong then we will be judged. I see the good and bad in the TPS system. I see the good teachers and those that are questionable. I see the efforts of all of those that want a better school system. But I also see__ as many others do__ that we are being used to further the power of some union heads and powerful parties at the expense of our children. It is not only outsiders that express this as many of us have talked to teachers that have expressed stronger objection to their own union than many of us have. But for fear of reprisals they say that they cannot speak out. This must be a very stressful position to be in. To know that things are not right as teachers but for fear of repercussions, they must hold their tongue. Many of us have been saying for year that TPS needs a through audit. For this we have been labled trouble makers. Now that the authorities are making the same accusations, we feel somewhat justified. We must be our own watchdog. And if it means calling a spade a spade, so be it.
LisaRenee Says:
“I think it’s interesting that Lawrence is focused on but those who act worse than her, seem to get a free skate.”
Hmm. I know the fairness exhibited by GCJ on issues that effect the populous, but if they have been given free skates and they qualify for the title of “worse” lets call them out!
Many of are convinced that the manipulations of the last school board elections were totally controlled by the TFT and their powerful money and influence. Many are not pleased as the door for the public has been thoroughly shutout with a hand picked union school board, with the exception of the surprising win by one member. Couple this farce of an election with criminal charges for past and current school administrators and we have a case. This is not a case against who is socially liked; this is a case of the honesty of the dealings with our school system and those we perceive as part of the problem.With the help of the Cleveland case the paint brush has just started to paint, and Toledo is in it again because we did not do our job and gave people a pass because they are socially acceptable and know how to play the public.
December 4th, 2009 at 3:20 pmOur school systems problems can not be laid completely at the door of the Lawrence or even the unions or even the school board members or even the superintendent. It’s a public school system, and the public recently demonstrated how much it cared by electing Larry Sykes…
The largest reason for failure in my opinion is directly related to the public both for the school system and for our whole government, local, state and federal. Eventually ignorance of the issues becomes a non-acceptable excuse, either we want our children to succeed and our community to succeed and we are willing to take personal responsibility for that, or we can continue to expect others to, then not be happy with the way it turns out. Yet, working together on common issues seems to be harder here than in other communities, in part because we seem to hold on to past slights, grudges and vendettas.
Take the recent Longfellow school item as an example, over 800 were willing to sign a petition, but that’s as far as they went. It takes more than that to demand action and change, yes, it’s inconvenient and it is hard to fight City Hall, but no one ever said it was easy. And those who fight, sometimes get tired, so they live to fight another day or give up because they get tired of fighting alone.
Then of course we could to into the whole shoot the messenger syndrome, of how some create the opposite response desired because of their own behavior, and it’s always much easier to point out the flaws of other groups than it is to deal with those within your own group. I’ve learned that first hand, but I’ve also learned who really cares in our community and they are the ones who demand the same behavior from everyone, who don’t treat others with disrespect, who expect the same behavior from those on “their side” as the opposite side.
It takes more courage to stand up when you are dealing with your own side, and we have a lack of courage in this town…
December 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pmLisa Renee, DITTO! I couldn’t have said it better myself…..
December 4th, 2009 at 8:09 pmLisaRenee Says:
“it’s always much easier to point out the flaws of other groups than it is to deal with those within your own group.”
If you only knew of the war within our ranks on what should be done to improve the schools and deal with the parents apathy you would be proud of the battle that we are waging on the inside. We know that we are up against a system of patronage, personal benefit, politics, broken homes, child abuse and lack of parental involvement. We also know that the schools can and should be a refuge for the blameless children and while we, as many others, try to figure out how to correct these many social and moral problems, we hope that we will not have to fight battles in school leadership, corruption and power struggles although I know that they are a fact of life. Teachers do not have it easy and we acknowledge this, but to close our eyes to the abuses of the parents, school officials and unions would be counter productive. If any agency, union or group of administrators were to be declared unfair game, then there would be no conversation about governments, mayors, politicians, dog wardens, YMCA’s etc. We see what we see from where we are and we give an opinion. From your side you see some of what I see but not all. And from my side I see some of what you see but not all. That is probably more than most do. We will not see or feel the same. Some of us lay the blame squarely at the feet of the both the parent and the system. The reason that you do not read of it so much in GCJ is that that is not where many in our community get their information. And some feel that one of our local papers has been compromised. But take my word, the battle for the improvement of schools rages on. And like many others that are up against the politics of Toledo, we are too. And while many call out those that they believe are responsible for our local problems__so do we.
“Yet, working together on common issues seems to be harder here than in other communities, in part because we seem to hold on to past slights, grudges and vendettas.”
Don’t be so hard on Toledo as our school issues are minor league compared to Cleveland. Check this site for big time slights, grudges and vendettas.
http://search.cleveland.com/school+corruption
Research would show many similar cases of calling out those who others believe are responsible for problems and I cannot believe that we and we alone are going too far. I can show you, as you know, hundreds of blogs and responses to blogs that are much harsher than our school issues. Blogs that call for jail, physical harm or worse. Blogs that indict whole families etc.
No it is not “always much easier to point out the flaws of other groups than it is to deal with those within your own group.” It is the hardest thing I have ever been called upon to do knowing that our urban issues are not about money or power in some cases, but about lack of love, complete or partial abandonment of responsibilities, even in hard times and lack of knowledge. That is the issue that we are fighting internally. But front page issues demand that we air our views on more public issues. And looking at the responses to school politics, we are not alone.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:58 pmI know the other blogs out there, I’ve been blogging for 6 years in total, and that’s why I do things differently here. I think you are missing my main point, it’s an overall failure by many of the groups and political parties. I stated it’s not just Toledo, it’s our state and it’s our nation but here we have less challenges than Cleveland, yet still fail.
We’ve had the discussion before as to the inability for both sides working together, that’s a failure of both with both having their own reasons, justifications, etc. That still leaves the main problem. Look at this last election, look at how many voted, look who won. We can debate the rest until the end of days but until this community actually makes our children and our city a priority? Nothing will change. History unfortunately shows us that people are rarely motivated until it impacts them personally. Few act based on the desire to have a positive impact without personally gaining something for it.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pmAnd we have blogs in this area where hatred exists, it’s actually a great example of why people are afraid to speak out. They see what happens to those who do.
If I published some of the hate filled junk people try to post here as comments, this blog would be no different, it’s already used too often for some who have little of value to offer beyond snide remarks. While this blog can be a great resource, it could be even better, but apparently that’s a threat to some.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:24 pmwwforlife:
December 4th, 2009 at 10:33 pmWho is “we” as you refer too???
sandy3m Says:
wwforlife:
“Who is “we” as you refer too???”
Sandy3m, The “we” are those of us in the inner city urban area that know what problems we face. Many of us are aware of the problems created by our own. Many of us have overcome these obstacles for our children and wish that many others would work to overcome their problems of working with and raising their children. Many of us do not blindly blame everyone else. Many simply hunker down and do the best job that they can with raising their own. But we find that there are obstacles in the system that are particularly hard on the urban communities. To believe otherwise is to close ones eyes. Across the nation, poor leadership, corruption and power hungry officials are causing problems regardless of race creed or color and the perpetrators also come in all colors.. Parents of all races creeds and color are also part of the problem. But when we feel that a particular organization or powerful group contributes to the problem we reserve the right to speak out as anyone else is allowed to do. We are not asking for a better school system in one area, we are asking for a better school system period. Transparency for one should be for all. It is in the high schools and lower schools that the treatment of the schools and resources are blatant and biased. Once a student reaches college there is no issue of failure to supply adequate resources and quality schooling. Our fight is at the local level. The problem is that many of those that we feel are part of the problem are those that interact socially with those in power or have some influence and so it appears that we are attacking their friends. They do not see that their friends actions have created issue that are not right. They take their word that we are the problem and refuse to even believe that we have any cause for complaint. They then feel the need to protect and support their friends, which is understandable…that is what friends are for. We believe that some of them have done great damage to the community in their positions of power while their friends see them as nice social individuals that they can have lunch with. We see some of them differently. Even if we present documents showing deception, some friends do not even want to consider them and so “we” get labeled as being vindictive or trouble makers. None of us are fighting for political positions or money as we only want honest dialog with TPS on the best way forward. The door has been shut to some degree but we will stay at it until it opens.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:18 amThis isn’t just a problem in the inner or central city, it’s everywhere.
When a marriage is in trouble, when couples go to a marriage counselor they do so to have someone who’s not intimately involved look at it from the outside. But for it to work, the couple has to be able to take criticism, has to be willing to work to save the marriage, just one can’t do it.
What we have here is a self fulfilling prophecy, both sides expect the worst from both, and then it happens, because of both sides. There is no trust and both sides will say the other one started it first, which justifies their behavior. This same thing can be said about more than your group versus the school system, it’s parts of our government, it’s part of our city, it’s part of our state, it’s part of our nation, it’s the rich versus the poor, black versus white, name your group and you’ll find it.
We are supposed to believe whichever party we aren’t is the problem, we are supposed to believe if we are poor that the rich are the problem, we are supposed to believe if we are rich that the poor are the problem, we are supposed to believe if we are legal, it’s the illegals that are the problem, we are supposed to believe if we are white it’s the blacks who are the problem, if we are black we are supposed to believe it’s the whites who are the problem. This message is sold to us over and over and over again. “We” are never the problem, “they” always are. If it was just not for “them” then everything would be fine. And when one of “them” does something wrong? That proves we were right about “them” because they are all like that.
Burns is a perfect example, he did something wrong, that doesn’t mean all of the others did. It’d be like me blaming all of your group for the behavior of one. Which is exactly what some are doing. Blaming a whole group for the behavior of a few and I understand why it’s done, because the first question is “why would you let someone that hateful be with you” — the irony here is both sides do the same thing.
If I can not tell those I love that I disagree with them, then I have no right to tell those I dislike anything. It is hard, doing this blog is the most frustrating thing I have ever done because I try to point out the other side if it’s not being presented, to raise other points of view to consider, even if I don’t agree but I know the position exists and it needs to be a part of the discussion, it’s not just my opinion or some pretense from me that I have all the answers. In return? I get more crap than I deserve from both sides, understandable, if I am not one of “you” then I am one of “them” — and if you (the figurative you not the individual “you” ) can label me as one of “them” than you can discount what I’ve pointed out or to try to assume I’m somehow blinded by friendship and bias to be able to see “the real truth” — I know the real truth, that everyone wants their truth to be the “real truth” and it rarely is…There is no truth. There is only perception. From one more cynical than me, Flaubert, yet he’s right.
December 5th, 2009 at 2:45 amLissaRenee,WWforlife,
Thank you both for helping me to understand our situation in TPS,Toledo, Unions and really just life. You both are one of many who have a grasp on our situation and you articulate it so well for an average person to “get it” {ME}
December 5th, 2009 at 7:57 amLisaRenee Says:
“If we are black we are supposed to believe it’s the whites who are the problem. This message is sold to us over and over and over again. “We” are never the problem, “they” always are. If it was just not for “them” then everything would be fine. And when one of “them” does something wrong? That proves we were right about “them” because they are all like that.”
Thank you for showing that “we”__ the ones fighting the school issue__ are not like those that you so clearly described above, because “we” __ the current group that I represent__do blame some of our own people and that is what makes us/we different. Many of us blamed the school board when it had a Black superintendent: a black TPS president and a majority minority TPS school board. We blamed the TPS oversight committee that was hand picked back then that had a large degree of monorities. Read the archives__you are one of the best researchers in the area! We again have a majority minority TPS school board and we are again concerned that the community will not be treated fairly.
And as for your statement that “We” are never the problem, “they” always are. “we” are only concerned when it is “our” people___ ,”
I have championed and mourned the loss of a White woman TPS member and I had supported her campaign to the best of my ability against the wishes of many in my community. So I don’t really need this type of lecture on those who only support people of their own color! If you can cite anyone that did not vote merely for color, I should be one of your best examples of voting on who I thought was best__ regardless of color. For city council I voted for Martinez and McNamara. That’s a vote for Black, White and Brown. Those are the only colors that ran. So my record speaks for itself. I voted the person not the color. So I hope that I will not continue to be included in the following group.
“We” are never the problem, “they” always are. If it was just not for “them” then everything would be fine. And when one of “them” does something wrong? That proves we were right about “them” because they are all like that.”
December 5th, 2009 at 12:40 pmMissdeejay Says:
LissaRenee,WWforlife,
“Thank you both for helping me to understand our situation in TPS,Toledo, Unions and really just life. You both are one of many who have a grasp on our situation and you articulate it so well for an average person to “get it” {ME}”
Missdeejay, I am also one of you “the average person” who is trying to understand.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:43 pmI’m not including or including people, I’m merely pointing out the reality of how the messaging is done and why because it is part of the problem and it’s one we rarely talk about.
I believed it was assumed not everyone operated under this…
It’s fairly clear many whites in this City will vote for a non-white candidate, it’s also clear that in the Central City, race appears to play a higher factor in the decision to vote but non-black candidates will receive votes and can win in those wards.
The cultural/societal messaging is what I was focusing on, we demonstrate we are able to challenge those messages when we vote, but we rarely discuss the reason for the mistrust. My personal belief is that we are supposed to fear and mistrust each other, the fear factor is how we are kept divided so that we don’t join together to change things, and there are those in every group that consciously or subconsciously continue to use the fear factor.
Let’s use me as an example, if you believe that I am a racist white woman who believes blacks should be subservient to me and this blog is designed only for white people, then you can discount anything I say that relates to any other race but my own. Anyone who defends me is also racist by proxy, creating me as the image of a victimizer and the accuser as the victim. Hence defense or agreement with another white person, well that’s expected, because “I’m one of them” — criticism of someone who is not white? Well, that’s expected too, because “I’m one of them” attempting to sell the same fear message.
Unfortunately you have bought in to part of that message, you believe since I have friends on the other side of this issue, that creates bias on my part and I would defend people based on that as opposed to how I really am. The mere fact that I see both sides, creates problems, because I don’t fit into that “mold” of where I am supposed to be. I don’t claim to be the only person capable of this, thankfully there are others.
It is both the luxury and the curse of having friends on both sides of many issues, not just this one, the ability to see from the outside but the curse of then being forced to tell people on both sides things they may not want to hear. Yet those able to do this without losing their sanity can offer a unique perspective at times, if anyone cares to listen and is interested in honesty from that perspective.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:05 pmLisa says: 21
“Let’s use me as an example, if you believe that I am a racist white woman who believes blacks should be subservient to me and this blog is designed only for white people, then you can discount anything I say that relates to any other race but my own. Anyone who defends me is also racist by proxy, creating me as the image of a victimizer and the accuser as the victim. Hence defense or agreement with another white person, well that’s expected, because “I’m one of them” — criticism of someone who is not white? Well, that’s expected too, because “I’m one of them” attempting to sell the same fear message.”
Sorry, I don’t know where this “example” applies to anything on this post. I will pass if examples of racism are inserted instead of the realities.
Lisa wrote: “Unfortunately you have bought in to part of that message, you believe since I have friends on the other side of this issue, that creates bias on my part and I would defend people based on that as opposed to how I really am.”
Now I know I will pass as I am not sure of what “I have bought into?” I have never ever implied that you support anyone because of their race. In fact I have on many occasions supported you on this blog and in the streets as race , up until now , was never a factor in who you or I supported and the reasons why we supported them! You would have to show me where I ever said that you supported anyone based on race. I believed that I was showing that I did not buy into a one race or the other point of view by my voting and candidate support record, but it seemed to get me more indicted into “what I have bought into! They say that when you are in a hole and want to get out, the best thing to do is to stop digging. It seems like the more I try to show by my actions, that I have not voted or taken a side based on race, the more I get “you have bought into this message” and examples of racist behavior” and implications that I have racist views. I will leave this issue for now, as I am more puzzled than when it started.
Methinks Thou Dost Protest Too Much.
December 5th, 2009 at 2:25 pmI’m sorry you decided to pass on the reality aspect of race, because I was willing to use myself as an example, and it’s not been done to just me. It was a real example of what is part of the problem.
That’s why it will continue, and you implied exactly the message portion in your previous post, while carefully worded to not name me directly, it’s been a concern expressed before.
I’m not protesting too much, I was trying to see if honesty was possible, since I’ve already been made a target, there’s nothing to lose by no longer pretending. I created Glass City Jungle on 1/15/06 – in approaching the anniversary, the future will contain more as I think part of the goal of transparency has to be a willingness to broach topics that we’ve avoided. There is a difference between keeping personal confidentiality and others knowing more than what is being told.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:26 pmLisaRenee Says:
“I’m sorry you decided to pass on the reality aspect of race,” ???????????
Lisa says: #10
“Yet, working together on common issues seems to be harder here than in other communities, in part because we seem to hold on to past slights, grudges and vendettas. “
ww You went from slights, holding grudges and vendettas to:
LisaRenee Says: #23
“I’m sorry you decided to pass on the reality aspect of race,”
ww I did not know that we were discussing “the reality of race” on this post. I missed the switch somewhere.But realizing that “the RACE WAS ON” You then went to:
Lisa says: # 17
“we are supposed to believe if we are white it’s the blacks who are the problem, if we are black we are supposed to believe it’s the whites who are the problem.”
ww In trying to find out what page you were on with the race issue I offered this to show that I had voted the person and not the race and that I had problems with the TPS board when it was dominated by minorities.
ww for life #19
Many of us blamed the school board when it had a Black superintendent: a black TPS president and a majority minority TPS school board. We blamed the TPS oversight committee that was hand picked back then that had a large degree of minorities. I have championed and mourned the loss of a White woman TPS member and I had supported her campaign to the best of my ability against the wishes of many in my community. So I don’t really need this type of lecture on those who only support people of their own color! If you can cite anyone that did not vote merely for color, I should be one of your best examples of voting on who I thought was best__ regardless of color. For city council I voted for Martinez and McNamara. That’s a vote for Black, White and Brown. Those are the only colors that ran. So my record speaks for itself. I voted the person not the color. So I hope that I will not continue to be included in the following group.
And for some unknown reason you came back with this and a hypothetical:
Lisa says: #21
“It’s fairly clear many whites in this City will vote for a non-white candidate, it’s also clear that in the Central City, race appears to play a higher factor in the decision to vote but non-black candidates will receive votes and can win in those wards.”
And “Let’s use me as an example, if you believe that I am a racist white woman who believes blacks should be subservient to me and this blog is designed only for white people, then you can discount anything I say that relates to any other race but my own. Anyone who defends me is also racist by proxy, creating me as the image of a victimizer and the accuser as the victim.”
ww Still befuddled by any awareness that I was even in a discussion about race, I came back with this:
wwfor life # 22
I have never ever implied that you supported anyone because of their race. In fact I have on many occasions supported you on this blog and in the streets, as race __ up until now__, was never a factor in who you or I supported and the reasons why we supported them! You would have to show me where I ever said that you supported anyone based on race. I believed that I was showing that I did not buy into a one race or the other point of view by my voting and candidate support record, but it seemed to get me more indicted into “what I have bought into! An when I said that “I will leave this issue for now, as I am more puzzled than when it started.”
You came back with this:
LisaRenee Says: #23
I’m sorry you decided to pass on the reality aspect of race,”
ww You have done a tremendous job as a blogger for the 6 years you said that you have been doing one and I have told you this on several ocassions….but I have been discussing race for a great many more years than that and will never pass on the realities of discussing it___ if I know that was what we are discussing.
December 5th, 2009 at 6:51 pmYou wrote, “Sorry, I don’t know where this “example” applies to anything on this post. I will pass if examples of racism are inserted instead of the realities.”
It is a reality, it’s happening and it’s happened to others and it impacts on the way people treat each other.
My response did not mean that I think you need to defend how you feel about the blog, or me, just that I think the accusations being made directed at others and including myself, since I’ve actually experienced this to know of what I am writing about, is part of the larger problem.
I understand why you may not want to broach how I am being treated, but it is the elephant in the room, for me and others.
December 5th, 2009 at 7:11 pmLisa says:
#25 “I understand why you may not want to broach how I am being treated, but it is the elephant in the room, for me and others.”
I would broach it if I knew how you are being treated and what I could do about it. I can not tell from the blogs and that is my only source of contact with you and issues that you blog about. But if you ever needed a senior for an alley fight with an 800 lb. elephant on your behalf__ I’m your man. You have my email.
December 5th, 2009 at 8:19 pmLisa
December 6th, 2009 at 7:52 amWhen you posted the following I believe that you were right on point.
“The largest reason for failure in my opinion is directly related to the public both for the school system and for our whole government, local, state and federal. Eventually ignorance of the issues becomes a non-acceptable excuse, either we want our children to succeed and our community to succeed and we are willing to take personal responsibility for that, or we can continue to expect others to, then not be happy with the way it turns out. Yet, working together on common issues seems to be harder here than in other communities, in part because we seem to hold on to past slights, grudges and vendettas.”
I am very concerned with exactly what you have pointed out above. “We have met the enemy and he is us!” (Pogo)
I also believe you are correct when you point out that there are a great many people within the school system who should not be lumped into the current scandal. I do however believe that a fundamental change needs to occur for the entire system to move forward, possibly in an entirely different manner. IMHO running a school system is not rocket science, doing it efficiently however would require an involved, informed community that was willing to let go of turf and intelligently examine the real issues. But, that would require very strong leadership.
I agree, it would take strong leadership and it’s also going to have to be someone who is very charismatic, because that is what this area seems to respond to with the hope they will not be fake…
Yet in the absence of this almost miracle person that we would need to find, being found, it is up to us. Those who are only interested in creating drama and vendetta mentality need to be overpowered by those who want solutions that will involve compromise. For that to happen, the community has to care. At times watching what is the main focus of our community, I wonder if that’s possible but? I still have hope…
December 6th, 2009 at 11:38 amThere is no community advocate I know (and I know many), that is as unbiased, tolerant, balanced, virtuous, noble, ethical and without prejudice as LisaRenee Ward. She is the beacon of hope in “Pottersville” and I for one am astonished that any one would question her virtue or character on any level after reading her posts or views on any and all subject matter written here or elsewhere.
Anyone that has questioned her character should be ashamed.
December 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pm