UT Democrats take issue with UT Republicans actions during Freedom Week Updated with photos/original resolution
This in via e-mail from the University of Toledo College Democrats:
Updated with photos and below the release sent is the original resolution that came before the University of Toledo. Click on the images to make them larger…
University of Toledo College Democrats Denounce Unethical Political Practices
The University of Toledo – Toledo, Ohio – November 10, 2009. UT College democrats speak out against unethical political practices on campus.
In response to the Freedom Week celebration aimed at honoring our veterans, The University of Toledo College Democrats our speaking out against The College Republicans attempt at pushing a political agenda.
The celebration, entitled Freedom Week was passed by the UT Student Government and was sponsored by the College Republicans and Army ROTC among others to honor our troops on Veterans Day this Wednesday.
However, display cases and campus wide billboards have been riddled with anti-socialism and anti-Obama literature in the name of Freedom Week by the College Republicans. One display case in the University of Toledo Student Union features a large sign saying “Freedom Week” and below it rests a poster featuring President Obama and the phrases “rebel against socialism” and another proclaiming “Let us ever beware of the destructive influence and blind arrogance of the left.”
Brad Davy President of the College Democrats said “it is deceitful to use the name of an event sponsored by other organizations like the Army ROTC to broaden support for your political message. The Anti-Obama sentiments and negative messages had no place alongside an initiative aimed at honoring our troops, I’m certain that the Army ROTC and Student Government would agree.”
Andrew Wettle Vice president of the Organization added “A Celebration of freedom and the honoring our veterans is certainly something all Americans can support, however it is shameful to turn attention away from our troops for the purpose of advancing a political agenda.
The UT College Democrats plan on meeting with university officials and the parties involved this week to discuss the matter and hope that such tactics are eliminated from political practices at the university.
Updated original text of Bill:
Bill 7043-B-102609
- To honor our veterans and those who have sacrificed for freedom around the world.
Author: Matthew Rubin
SPONSORED BY: Rachel Eby, Charles Calire
WHEREAS, Within the week of November 9th to 11th, there fall several historic dates important to the spreading of freedom and
democracy in America and around the world;
WHEREAS, November 9th is the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. For decades the Berlin Wall was the most
recognizable symbol of the Cold War and the Soviet Union’s repression of millions. The fall of the Berlin Wall marked a significant milestone for freedom’s victory over tyranny;
WHEREAS, November 11 is Veterans Day, a federal holiday honoring veterans from all branches of the armed services; and
WHEREAS, Billions around the world from Sudan to North Korea, are still oppressed. Their ongoing struggle for freedom should
be recognized.
THEREFORE, LET IT BE RESOLVED: The week of November 9TH be declared Freedom Week at the University of Toledo, the day of November 9 be recognized as World Freedom Day, and both be officially added to the University of Toledo’s calendar as such.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Shut down the dissent! haha
November 10th, 2009 at 4:18 pmThese kids are following obama’s lead in attempting to shut down free speech. What a sham.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:33 pmSounds like Brad Davy hates freedom of speech. Perhaps he can use this week to pull up his big boy underwear and reflect about the true meaning of Freedom Week.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:36 pmI’m sure the University of Toledo and the Veterans groups as well as all of you who have commented so far would have no problem if the UT College Democrats had a similar display focusing on the right.
Though personally, it seems to contradict the very message of Freedom week and honoring veterans since many of our veterans are from varying ends of the political spectrum.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:03 pmI’d give their message a bit more credit if it didn’t have such blatant spelling and grammatical errors.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:11 pmMy gracious. Really? On the news, a patisian agenda never appeared to be pushed. I believe the ROTC presented the colors at the Support the Troops Rally. Does this not show their support of the event?? Davy, so much for freedom of speech.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:44 pmIf that was the case then the UT College Republicans should have been dinged by you but I corrected their release, if you visit SwampBubbles, Chris did not – had anything drawn the attention of my spell check – I would have fixed it after first receiving their permission.
November 10th, 2009 at 5:52 pmSo by College Democrat logic: because we are honoring the veterans who have fought to protect the freedom of speech and our political rights, we have to suppress the freedom of speech of those who want to send a political message during Veteran’s Day/Freedom week. This is asinine and quite possibly insane.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:01 pmI find it funny that during freedom week, there are complaints about expression of opinion.
Would the college dems drop their complaint if the two words freedom week were dropped from the display?
I like how the campus has been “riddled” with CR’s paraphernalia, but only one instance is specifically mentioned
Give us ALL the instances. Show us how intolerant the Cr’s really are. This is higher education after all. Bore us with all the footnotes and examples. College is all about boring papers footnoted to the hilt anyway.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:07 pmI guess it depends on where you are coming from as a point of logic. What does the president of the United States or a political party have to do with honoring Veterans is also a question that could be asked, and it appears that is the basis of this complaint.
Don’t all veterans deserve to be honored regardless of their political affiliation? From the initial release by the UT College Republicans it was stated that all of the community was welcome, not just those who don’t like the current President or the left.
Personally, putting out a release like this tends to just bring out the bashers, though I’d note that Democrats did not engage in this behavior on the post about the UT College Republicans.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:08 pmTo answer your question – yes all veterans deserve to be honored and this was THEIR time.
It’s sad that some folks don’t have the respect and the manners to know that this wasn’t the time to air their own issues and agenda. It’s sad that some people don’t know that everything isn’t always about them – in this case it isn’t anything about them unless they’re vets.
But some folks just don’t know any better.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:18 pmWhile I applaud the UT College Republicans for honoring the vets, I could have wished that they had shown more wisdom and less partisanship in doing so.
There is no politics to the honor deserved by those who are serving and have honorably served this country.
There is no true freedom in name calling. Neither is there freedom in partisan wrangling.
Such an event should have been something that both parties could have and should have gotten behind. The subsequent rhetoric on both sides does disservice to both the veterans and the named cause.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:21 pmObviously the ROTC is going to support a rally that honors the ROTC and the Army. The College Republicans press release didn’t say anything about the ROTC supporting other events of “freedom week” only the rally. Why are the College Democrats whining about ideology? Can’t they just hold their own Socialist Week?
November 10th, 2009 at 6:22 pmWell written Tim, I completely agree, it’s unfortunate both College Groups did not join together and that partisanship once again became an issue.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:23 pmOur veterans fought against the socialists and communists over the years to protect our freedom. No wonder the CDs are so upset, because their president is driving further and further to the loony left it makes them look like they are supporting the same people our veterans fought! Example: people like Van Jones (avowed communist and Obama’s former Green Czar) and others in his administration who seem to admire dictators like chairman Mao.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:34 pmWhy do you think obama didn’t go to the wall ceremony? Didn’t want to honor the fall of Marxism in the soviet union?
November 10th, 2009 at 6:45 pmRichard, I come from a long line of family members who are veterans, some of them were also Democrats, I have family and friends currently in the armed forces, some who are Democrats and some who voted for Obama.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to assume just because you don’t support our current president that all veterans would agree with your position.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:50 pmI guess I was unaware that the President was a veteran. If I was correct in thinking he is not a vet – why don’t people seem to be able to understand that this isn’t an appropriate forum to make the issue about him?
November 10th, 2009 at 6:53 pmI agree with you Lisa. I have friends who voted for Obama whether it was becuase they were Democrats or thought that he would bring some good change. My point was that I think the CRs are justified in pointing out some of the radical associations of our president and the people who he surrounds himself with. Regardless of how anyone voted (I think many people who voted for him did so in good faith)the fact remains that Obama is moving this country in the direction of less freedom and excessive government.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:00 pmThe CD’s made it part of this forum kateb. Are you trying to stifle freedom of speech? Look below.
“The Anti-Obama sentiments and negative messages had no place alongside an initiative aimed at honoring our troops, I’m certain that the Army ROTC and Student Government would agree.”
November 10th, 2009 at 7:01 pmI expect the CDs dominate the campus and are peeved that the CRs got a word in edge wise.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:04 pmWe agree as to that Richard, I also don’t disagree that some believe Obama will move this country in that direction, but I’m not sure we are at the fact point on that. It could be debated which would be a different thread.
Not Again, the College Democrats pointed out action taken by the College Republicans, that they disagreed with, which they have the right to do. Nor is it inappropriate to question the appropriateness of including a political message in what was billed as something for the whole community to honor veterans.
Freedom of speech goes both ways, you can’t claim it as a defense but then deny it when it’s done in response. We have no right to not be offended in most cases, but that doesn’t mean we can’t say something offends us or to rationally point out what we took issue with. I’d also appreciate it if you’d stay on topic…
November 10th, 2009 at 7:15 pmOnce a valuable message, such as honoring veterans has been taken over by a wholly off topic issue such as bashing a political party – you can’t really blame other people for replying that it was unacceptable conduct.
These are the same people, and I actually saw this happen once, who show up and make a toast at a wedding that’s all about them. They talk about their own wedding day etc. etc. while the bride, groom and all in attendance look around at each other thinking, ‘what the hell is wrong with this guy?’
November 10th, 2009 at 8:44 pmFreedom of speech does not play in this scenario – There is a time and place for such political stunts. The men and women that served our country put there time in so let’s respect and honor them for that. I’m a conservative and I to see some of the faults this and the previous administrations have produced but that thought and feeling can be set aside – set aside especially tomorrow. Let’s grow up kids and pay our respects to those who stood up for us when the time came.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:54 pmI applaud the efforts of the College Republicans to honor the troops and organize a week that celebrates the freedoms we hold dear in this country.
A note on the political climate of the campus…
The College Republicans are by far the largest political based student organization. The Socialist party has a growing influence on campus. The College Democrats are the smallest.
With the great amount of Socialist influence on campus, it seems very appropriate that the College Republicans would direct the group’s message and freedom week to draw attention to the differences in political ideology- specifically socialism.
The College Democrats would be better off directing their energy to build up the organization, maybe by trying to recruit some of the College Socialists??
November 10th, 2009 at 8:58 pmMeg –
This event was mandated and initiated by the Student Government Senate. Matt Rubin and the College Republicans proceeded to borrow the names of other student organizations under the false pretenses of a completely legitimate and unbiased piece of legislation passed unanimously through SG Senate.
The group continued to publicize “Freedom Week” with these unknowing organizations listed as sponsors. According to top ranking officials in the Army ROTC program, they had no knowledge of being associated with these displays. The Army ROTC has since removed their name from all events related to “Freedom Week.” This simple act shows the deceptive and deceitful nature of Matt Rubin and his organization. Hiding behind larger and more powerful student organizations to gain momentum and appeal to a broader base of students – a diverse group that certainly doesn’t need to be brainwashed by propaganda. My favorite part about the entire week has been the mock “Berlin Wall” constructed by the College Republicans. Last year, they attempted a similar stunt without prior approval from the administration. This year, with the falsely induced support of Student Government, they constructed a new mock “Wall,” consisting of 2×4s and some half-painted “McCain/Palin” supersigns, with the backside of the wall being completely exposed conservative literature.
I am one of the senators who unanimously passed this legislation. It is completely sane and logical to honor our troops and veterans in a respectful, considerate way. To push a political agenda and take two organizations which by LAW must remain nonpartisan along for the ride is a complete abuse of power and a mockery of the entire “Freedom Week” display.
As for the College Democrats organization, it is an extremely successful group on campus. Not only did we contact over 2,500 voters on election day this year, we registered over 2,500 voters on campus last semester. We continue to push for democratic candidates and democratic ideals as opposed to consistently bashing and tearing down our opponents. It is common knowledge that numerous individuals with positions of power in the CR organization have been forced to step down or resign due to Matt Rubin’s consistent abuse of power and neglectful behaviors. I welcome everyone to attend one of our meetings, Monday evenings at 830pm in the Student Union, room 2591. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
The concern at hand has nothing to do with “freedom of speech” or the entire concept of “Freedom Week.” It is the purposeful and abusive coercion of influential student organizations on campus by Matt Rubin and the College Republicans that deserves a second look.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:11 pm“Freedom of speech does not play in this scenario”
Let’s not even think about taking a step down this road. That’s a scary statement. Perhaps phrasing it differently is what you meant Roman.
I would go as far as to believe protests of vets and freedom week should be allowed in the name of free speech. What happened to the free flow of ideas and speech on campuses?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pmThe legislation was passed and voted on by a few college democrats who are in the student senate. The student government as well as ROTC are neutral entities. The college republicans are hiding behind these groups to submit their ideas. I think that a school display for veterans day week activities and honoring those who served should be exactly that, and not a day/place to bicker over politics. We should be coming together, or at least pretending to do so by making a display together instead of bickering about the president. Let’s keep the focus on what the passed student government bill appropriated. Then, if the college republicans, ROTC, the math department, or whoever else wants to make an opinionated display let them. But, let’s not sneak controversial literature into a display for freedom week and veteran’s day. It is a celebration.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:15 pmI think I see the problem…
In the bill that Student Government received and passed it doesn’t state anything about the extreme political propaganda/position that the CR’s were going to take during the sponsored event. Nobody is going to say no to the support of a seemingly nonpartison week dedicated to honoring those who have fought for our country. The bill was of course passed, then the CR’s took a radical position using the coined term and all of this is seemingly supported by the sponsoring groups. I’m sure the Student Government and Army ROTC would not have been interested in being part of such an event that contained such messages if they had known up front. It’s even against the law for the Army to be part of partisan politics according to the hatch act (http://www.osc.gov/hatchact.htm).
Clearly the problem is not the CR’s message (being on campus alot, there is no doubt they love their negative propaganda) it is the way it was presented and how they deceptively used stronger, more powerful groups then theirs to gain visibility.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:28 pmExactly Dave, This is unethical to say the least if the CR’s wanted to do this on their own, it would be fine but to drag the name of the Army ROTC into it, to broaden support is wrong and draws away from the intent of the bill. Completly wrong the CR’s should be ashamed of themselves. also, the college democrats are one of the fasting growing organizations on campus and their politcal involvement is much grater than the CR’s. The college democrats deal with real politcal action the CR’s only spread their partys message.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:38 pmI want to start by saying that I am tired of people immediately associating patriotism with conservatism. It is not impossible to be both patriotic and liberal. The claims that President Obama is unpatriotic are also ignorant, a person can not be more patriotic than running for this stressful office. But all of this is beyond the point of this blog.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:10 pmBut what I really would like to point out is that this is not the first negative campaign by the College Republicans and it will not be the last. If this is the method of political activism they want to pursue that is perfectly fine with the College Democrats…we can handle it. What we can’t handle is the members of the College Republicans deceiving the students and the university . The example of Freedom Week is perfect for this point. It does not matter to the UT Dems that the Republicans ridicule left leaning groups but the problem is that the CRs used the name of non-partisan groups like Student Government to politicize something as pure as honoring veterans.
This display board was not a productive or supportive way of honoring our troops and I hope that in the future the CRs try to get it right. In the end of the day Veteran’s Day and even the original Freedom week is a time to be thankful for veterans’ sacrifices and to celebrate the toppling of the Berlin Wall.
Left or Right one would think that a FREEDOM rally would be the place where you would celebrate the sacrifices made by the men and woman or the US Armed forces. And one of those FREEDOMS is the freedom of speech.
I’m sure if this event had been held last year and there were anti-Bush signs all over the Campus nobody would have put up such a fuss.
Free speech is just that. And political correctness really helped out alot in the Fort Hood incident.
I am a USAF Veteran, and love this country more then I can express. And I have been to many a Foreign land to protect the rights of the students at UT and their abality to express their views.
My son turned 18 last year when he was a Senior at a local High School and did vote in November’s Presidential Election. When asked in his American Govt. class who he planned to vote for he stated McCain. His teacher called him a racist and stupid. Being 18 he left the class for the day and declined to answer any further questions the rest of the semester. This resulted in a “D” for his grade.
Free speech only seems to be free if you agree with the person that complains the loudest, the most and usually has the weakest argument.
Tyrants exist all over the world and one in this country that can’t stand up to a little heckling and criticism probably should step down and let someone else lead.
If Obama had to put up with what Bush did, He’d probably cry all the way back to Kenya.
IYAAYAS
November 10th, 2009 at 11:57 pmGood Morning, in response to USAF AMMO President Obama is not from Kenya, he was born in the United States… I did not think freedom week was about politics,its about honoring men and women who serve,have served our country. Kudos to the College Democrats, keep up the good work.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:52 amIs there more to the bill than just what was listed because, maybe it’s just early and my eyes haven’t adjusted, but I don’t see anywhere where it says anything about putting up a display.
If that is the case, then I don’t quite see the connection. Basically SG declared it freedom week and then the CR’s put up a display connecting their group and their views on freedom to freedom week. Which it sounds like anyone could have done.
It’s been a while since I was a student and I never put up a display, but I always thought that displays as well as certain bulletin boards, could not be used without getting permission from UT as it is their property to manage.
So basically it comes down to there being two separate issues. 1) Freedom Week occurred 2) CR’s put up thier displays on their views of Freedom Week, which anyone could do, and the CD’s are upset because they didn’t think to do so and now it’s too late to get approval for their displays/boards.
So unless there’s some information that wasn’t given in the article, the only possible problem I could see would be if the CR’s have in their board that the groups that support freedom week support the displays they put up without asking the groups to support the displays. If those groups did give permission and just didn’t look at what the displays were going to contain, shame on them. If the CR’s said it was going to contain something different to get it approved by those groups, then shame on them.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:09 ambookwormroom.com
wrote:
I think the College Republicans may have gotten it right.
Admin note:
Rogue, congratulations! You linked something here that’s been featured at websites such as Stormfront, and apparently appears to be one of those urban myths that people like to forward around. Even those at the Hannity Forums had enough sense to question it. They got that right – Snopes.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:54 amthe CRs didn’t try to honor the veterans – they dishonoured the veterans by using them as their platform for political discourse. no one is trying to stop free speech, but don’t associate your political speech with an honored group of people who may or may not agree with your opinion and did not give permission to speak for them/associate with them.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:19 amWOW! This thread generates more response than the Connecting Point controversy. Go-figure!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:29 amOur Veterans fought and continue to fight for our right to free speech, you may not agree with the messgage but all have a right to present that message. It is up to you whether or not you want to listen.
OMG Rogue, I actually love your post! Please mark that on the calendar!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:49 amIt is incredible that anyone would protest that exhibit. Unless of course, it is true.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:59 amzimmy,
November 11th, 2009 at 10:07 amA political party used a platform for political discourse. And? Doesn’t mean they dishonoured the veterans by doing so. Dishonouring them would have been showing some anti soldier posters from Vietnam. Looking at the bill, Veterens day is only one of the three reasons Freedom Week is recognized. The other two are the Berlin Wall and other opressed countries so to me they fell completely in line if they think our current administration is leading us down that path. It’s freedom week and they had a message.
Andrew, I am not sure to what you refer to with the Berlin Wall. Both sides were completely, and I repeat, COMPLETELY covered with paint. There was no sign of McCain/Palin once the project had been completed. You’re off your rocker.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:18 amThis is funny!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 amI’m an in general friend of the cause but I’ve always been a little uncomfortable with the Reagan Cult Worship.
I think a little less Reagan worship would serve CRs and various conservative groups well.
Stick with the issues and leave the devotion for God.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:38 amdoug -
i largely agree with you. john meyers explanation (#34) was the clearest – i should have read all posts before i posted.
i am still very leary of the right claiming ownership of veterans and implying that the left is un-American simply because they disagree with how best to move ahead on policy. it might have been better, perhaps clearer, for the CRs for this one week to simply honor the veterans and skip policy issues which creates divisive static on the supporting veterans message and use the remaining 51 weeks of the year for the debate.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:43 amAs Lew Rockwell recently wrote:
“…free-market capitalism serves no more than a symbolic purpose for the Republican Party and for conservatives. Economic liberty is the utopia that they keep promising to bring us, pending the higher priority of blowing up foreign peoples, jailing political dissidents, crushing the left wing on campus, and routing the Democrats.
Once all of this is done, they say, then they will get to the instituting of a free-market economic system. Of course, that day never arrives, and it is not supposed to. Capitalism serves the Republicans the way Communism served Stalin: a symbolic distraction to keep you hoping, voting, and coughing up money.”
You read more here if you’re interested: http://mises.org/daily/3850
November 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pmwe are a blended system –
capitalism or its cousin meritocracy is critical to creative thinking and rewarding innovation. the problem with capitalism right now is that many of the very well off now have not been innovative or taken great risks or even worked their tails off. the system has been rigged so that those who can steal best or born right are rewarded.
those that bash socialism still drive on public roads, go to the library, utilize the social security system, count on building inspection to make sure buildings are up to code, lobby congress for more dollars for defence spending, get their trash picked up, expect congress to regulate aig and bad banks – all socialist activities. socialism is merely those activities we agree as a society to have government do – we are all socialists, it is merely where we all draw the line – a continuum between the two with some other ingredients such as morals and corruption thrown in.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pmAfter reading the entire thread, I think one main issue is missing. The legislation was authored, executed and implemented by Matt Rubin, the president of the UT CRs. Why, knowing this, do the “Johnny come lately” CDs think that the message would not lean more conservative? Why did the CDs not sponsor author the legislation and execute a plan to honor the veterns?
My guess, is that part of their membership has visibly opposed the current and previous wars…many may have protested. NOT giving the respect to the lives at risk to protect their freedom of speech!
This day is about honoring those who protect our freedoms every day. Without them, everyone’s lives would be DRAMATICALY different….that is the real world…not some coffe house hypothetical BS on a college campus.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pmZimmy,
We are NOT socialist because we drive on public roads or go to the library. IF I earn more than you, and pay higher taxes, I PAY for those roads, libraries, etc…..NOT voluntarily.
Being robbed blind by the government is not an acceptance of socialism….it is more criminal than anything.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:12 pm“the system has been rigged so that those who can steal best or born right are rewarded.”
This is a good sign that we are moving away from capatilism and towards socialism/communism. When success is based on who you know and favors as opposed to innovation and hard work then you know that the free market is dying.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:55 pmI agree, communism is the approach to take. All people, except the controllers, need to be brought down to the same level of servitude, for the good of the state.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pmnot a socialist? ok. you behave in a socialist manner, however. you pay for those roads and libraries along with the other members of society – a socialist activity. you don’t pay voluntarily but you do pay because you chose to live in a representative democracy. is there any activity the government does that you willingly agree to pay taxes for?
if you earn more than me is irrelevant – everybody pays taxes.
if the majority of us didn’t agree to this socialist activity of building roads, we would vote for people opposed to public roads. if the vast majority of us didn’t agree the government should build at least some roads there would at least be candidates running on a platform of no roads – that doesn’t happen. and, by the way, capitalist enterprises benefit most from roads – as a society, we have accepted that.
national roads, national defense, national air-traffic control, national veterans day, national health care – why would only national health care qualify as a socialist activity while the others don’t?
they are all socialist activities.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pmnational roads, national defense, national air-traffic control, national veterans day, national health care – why would only national health care qualify as a socialist activity while the others don’t?
zimmy…agreed. Get rid of them all as far as I’m concerned. I want a Federal Government not a National one.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:34 pmRockwell also pointed out:
“All of which leaves true capitalism — a product of the voluntary society and the sum total of all the exchanges and cooperative acts of people all over the world — with few actual intellectual defenders. They are growing, but the educational work we need to do is daunting, and we are facing the most powerful forces in the world.
There is nothing new in this. In the history of the world, freedom is the exception, not the rule. It must be fought for anew in every generation. Its enemies are everywhere, but the leading enemy is ignorance. For this reason, the main weapon we have at our disposal is education.
Education includes explaining that socialism is an unworkable idea. There is nothing better than Ludwig von Mises’s 1922 book Socialism, a comprehensive presentation of the fallacy of the socialist idea. Another essential work is the Black Book of Communism. Here we have a wake-up call that shows that the dream of socialism is actually a bloody nightmare.”
November 11th, 2009 at 4:39 pmAdmin wrote:
Yes, Lisa, anyone who followed the link would have found out that the story is at best unconfirmed.
I’m guessing most of the parables we take pertinent lessons from, can be classified as unconfirmed. And yet it doesn’t dilute the message.
Otherwise Aesop, Homer, Moses, and even Matthew would be taken to task for not better sourcing their material.
Carry on…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:56 pmCount me in those who don’t find much value in fake tales designed to create a fake message. Truth wins out over fiction unless one is seeking pure entertainment.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:58 pmIf “entertainment” isn’t part of the GCJ mission, then I’m guessing that’s a surprise to a significant portion of your audience…
xox
November 11th, 2009 at 5:05 pmI for one thought it was a very entertaining and thought provoking message. I hope that doesn’t make me an extremist?
To me an extremist is someone like the terrorist that committed the atrocities at ft hood. But you won’t hear that from the government. No, to the government, tea party participants are extremists, not the poor guy that was egged into an unfortunate killing of 13 people.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:23 pm#38 meghan wrote:
It’s now a RED-LETTER Day for me, meghan..!
November 11th, 2009 at 5:36 pmAmerican Policy Roundtable
wrote:
A more factual based parable for those who require it.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:25 pmThere once was a time when local Republicans honored our veterans on this day gracefully. Take, for example, Veterans Day about 15 years ago, when John Birmingham led other Lucas Co. Young Republicans through cemetaries and planted flags on veterans’ graves – regardless of their political affiliations. I am obviously a liberal Democrat who doesn’t agree with John all that often, but anyone who knows John (a former Kaczala operative, former state rep candidate, and current state and national GOP activist) knows that he is a class individual — unlike the College cranks who brazenly teabagged a sacred day thus making it more about them than the soldiers they ostensibly were supporting.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:09 pmAll of this hullabaloo really should not even be an issue. The CDs are just grasping at straws to get attention, gin up their leftist base, and to make the CRs out to be horrible people.
Thank you for putting up those photos, Lisa. Now as I remember, as a former student at UT and a former senator in UTSG, that organizations there could reserve and put up a display in that case, which it looks like the CRs have done. I have seen organizations such as the sororities and fraternities to the campus socialists put up their stuff and propaganda in there. What really is the difference this time? Just because the CRs are putting up two signs against what they see as tyranny we now have to censor them?!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:36 pmRichard, as it appears through out this thread and by reading the original item presented that created Freedom Week, the issue appears to be not the material, but the use of the material as a part of Freedom Week and involving the ROTC in something that ended up being political instead of ceremonial…
As some from the College Dem organization stated, the College Republicans are more than welcome to share material such as the items shown, just not under the pretense of honoring Veterans and Freedom Week. That seems to be the concern as expressed…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:41 pmI am a member of the College Republicans and the student senate along with being a co-sponsor of the aforementioned bill. Let me point out a few details. If any of the college democrats or socialists had attended the event honoring our veterans on Tuesday they would have seen the event was done in complete respect for the veterans with no regard to party politics. Matt Rubin and everyone involved worked to keep it that way. I had Matt include the reading of the names of the soldiers killed at Ft. Hood. The reading of the names was done with complete respect for the family’s and our military. I mention this because I have very strong feelings on the issue and would have had some strong comments about the attack. Matt, Dr. Nick and Jack Smith kept their speeches neutral and focused on the remembering those who died to keep us free.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:01 amSomeone mentioned in a previous post about Matt Rubin’s abuse of power. I have worked with Matt since the beginning of the year and have never seen him nor anyone in the club do anything abusive. The College Republicans do not claim to own the veterans. The CR’s were the only group that offered to remember them on Veteran’s day. I don’t remember seeing a display case done by the CD’s paying respect to the veterans.
Speaking for myself and not on behalf of the CR’s, senate or any other college group, I personally believe that liberal and socialist thinking is in trouble in this country. It didn’t work in California and New Jersey. People are beginning to wake up and see that our nation’s leader, Barry Hussein Obama, is trying to take us down the road of socialism. That is why conservative talk radio is exploding and liberal based talk radio has gone down the toilet. The liberals know the road is coming to an end for them soon. This is evident on the U.T campus where I see more and more students becoming involved with the CR’s or expressing discontent with our current government
There was a recent article in the New Yorker and which part was reprinted in Tuesdays Wall Street Journal, which stated from a viewpoint from a member of the left that Obama’s goal is turn our great nation into a socialist country.
The liberals and socialists know they are in trouble. That is why they are screaming foul at the CR’s for paying respect to our veterans and for standing up for freedom from socialism and tyranny.
I agree with #12. Leave party politics out of honoring our Veterans.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:59 pmChuck (#63) – All sorts of name-calling here, just as there apparently was at the event itself. Your post, in which you use the term “socialist” more than Joe McCarthy did during the entirety of the HUAC hearings, only bolsters my point.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:15 pm#63 only mentioned socialists once sujay. McCarthy was against communists. Are they the same to you?
I think in these times it is beneficial to disguise ones true intentions, which is what we are seeing with the current administration.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:29 pmThis is especially fitting, now that Obama is going to purge Republicans from Civil Service!
November 12th, 2009 at 8:28 pmSujay – is it possible Charles read the entire thread before commenting?
The socialist party/group is active on campus – as mentioned previously. Is it possible that Charles was also talking about socialists who call themselves socialists?
Perhaps seeing he was a CR distorted your comments.
The man even quoted someone on the left calling certain things socialism.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:37 pmLisa, Lisa, Lisa….
Since when do you use something as ‘powerful’ as the admin note to merely comment on someone’s post? Here I reference #35… wow. Why not just post a separate comment? He really must have hit a nerve there, from one Catholic to another…
LisaRenee #55 Says:
“Count me in those who don’t find much value in fake tales designed to create a fake message. Truth wins out over fiction unless one is seeking pure entertainment.”
So you can be certain that the Bible is truth???? Really, I’m not certain beyond blind faith that there are any credible sources you can cite for that one….. Can you truly assure me that that is the truth? Or could it be a fake tale, as that that you claim Rogue to tell…
November 12th, 2009 at 10:17 pmLet’s see what the truth really is here, Lisa. Freedom of speech. That’s the real thing here….
I could have deleted it, I instead used my ability to add an administrative note, so anyone who read the post would immediately know the material shared was not accurate. As to trying to create a biblical comparison? Those who believe, believe it is truth. That’s quite different from something that was known to be purposely fabricated and shared online in some pretty hateful places.
Freedom of speech does not apply to this blog, if that was the case, there would be no rules, nothing removed that was in violation of the rules and no editing at all.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:24 pmWow Henri, why so defensive of rogue? And such a harsh repsonse over something so trivial.
I still think its a great lesson
November 12th, 2009 at 11:08 pmMeghan-
Which is really harsh? My question, or her action??? I don’t defend Rogue, as a person, rather the point that he makes…
Lisa takes something SHE claims to be false, akin to a parable… so why not debunk, and decry those which rogue himself cited?????? I find his reference to Homer, Aesop, et al, to be quite enlightening, and broadening of the mind, if one would so allow.
Truly, how is it that we as a people of this global society, are so willing to accept that which we know not to be written by those listed above, yet we readily attack something just because it may be unpopular.
Hence, I cited the Bible. Not all are ready to believe in God, or that He and His disciples wrote the Word… And yet at the same time, many believe with no evidence…
Why not lay the same sort of broad latitude to that which Rogue wrote? He referenced people we do not know to have written ANYTHING………
November 12th, 2009 at 11:33 pmI understand your point, Lisa. It does amaze me how others still will want you to do your site from their perspective.
Also is amazing how some can’t differentiate no matter the source or content, the message is the same, whether a biblical story or a fairy tale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYiCM35V7_w
Some will take the longer road and others speed right through the center.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:16 amLisaRenee wrote:
I’m not sure Post #35 can be classified as “hate speech”, but i know times are a changin’ and my “p.c.” style book is at least a year out of date.
To be fair, I sourced the post, so that anyone could follow the link and find out that its veracity, or authenticity, BUT I thought the message was valid and pertinent to the thread.
I’m hoping we can still make statements against socialism, either in parable or in a presentation case, without being labeled “haters”; but again, I recognize that times are changing.
I’ve been edited before, on this blog, and I’m guessing I’ll be edited again…
c’est la vie.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:03 amTom Mo – Charles typifies the other like-minded critics in red-baiting this issue by branding Obama and his supperters socialists, as he did in referring to California and NJ.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:01 pmSujay, you got to call a spade a spade. Of course obama is at least a socialist. Don’t be silly. Have you been drinking?
“supperters”?
November 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pmHaven’t seen his socialist party membership card. Maybe Orly Taitz can come up w/it.
“Suppoters” was a typo, not a teabagger-style misspelling.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:31 amThe CR made an err in judgement not getting a Veteran’s Service Organization instead. Those are groups who staunchly defend the First Amendment.
Additionally they don’t have to worry about legality like the Army does.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:49 pm