Glass City Jungle

Did Toledo vote based on race? The numbers tell the story…

This entry was posted on Thursday, November 5th, 2009 at 2:58 am and is filed under Election 09, I wonder, Selectively, Toledo. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

78 Responses to “Did Toledo vote based on race? The numbers tell the story…”

1
rogue Says:

Yep, Lisa, I ran the same numbers, and came up with the same conclusions: Democrats did very well in Democrat wards.
That’s why I always get a laugh out of Republican candidates who have a “new strategy” for winning ward 14. Blue is Blue, and you ain’t gonna change it.
November 5th, 2009 at 7:49 am

2
bgdemocrat Says:

Lisa – I didn’t need to run the numbers to know that areas with a high percentage of black people voted overwhelmingingly for the black candidates and neighborhoods with there isn’t that percentage voted in lesser numbers for the black candidates.
There is a huge racial divide in the City of Toledo whether people want to admit it or not.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:03 am

3
Missdeejay Says:

Like you said “numbers don’t lie,” but some of us pay close attention and make up our own minds when it involves voting for our best interests.
When I was working I went along with the herd a lot,probably because I didn”t have time to study the issues as I should, it is easier to allow someone else to do your thinking for you.
Now that I have retired I have time to study the issues and candidates, it has been very enlightning and frustrating to see all the shenanagins and Deceit that goes on in the political realm.But politics affects every area of our lives on the job and off.If you are not apart of the soloution you are a part of the problem and silence is consent.
I was disapointed that Larry Syph won over Darlene Fisher we already did Larry, and under his last term TPS did not reach it’s goal on minority contracts. Plus my memories of him are like my memories of Carty!!!!! Why did the electorate vote him in,duped again,”why”.The proof is in the pudding.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:59 am

4
LisaRenee Says:

I expected Bell & Wilkowski to be close, when it ended up not being close one of the questions I’ve been asked by quite a few is why. A few suggested it was because of things like Route 66 or the United Way, but Bell and Wilkowski were very close in many of the wards.
It also goes the other way, English did not win any Wards where Wilkowski did, Green did not win any Wards where Wilkowski did, which demonstrates the Democratic slate card was not followed in any ward by a majority of voters. Bell won support in some of those Wards, but not for judicial or school board with the exception of Hill who did well in almost every Ward.
There was also a great deal of surprise by many that Mr. Sykes was returned to the School Board. Did the “pimp” ad that no one seemed to want to really discuss or reveal those behind it have an impact or would it have happened anyway can’t be answered. There was an expectation that the Democratic party support and Wilkowski’s past involvement in the Obama campaign would have an impact in the Central City wards. That didn’t happen and I’m not sure how much impact Jack Ford’s endorsement of Bell had since he did not campaign actively. Bell’s father is well known as an active Democrat for over 40 years, did loyalty to him transition beyond party? Clearly possible…
November 5th, 2009 at 10:16 am

5
LisaRenee Says:

The other thing that should be mentioned is both African American newspapers endorsed Wilkowski. Both the Sojourner’s Truth and the Toledo Journal. Their endorsements seemed to have the same power as the other newspaper endorsements…minimal…
November 5th, 2009 at 10:38 am

6
Darlene Fisher Says:

This is all very interesting. Has anyone talked to Keith W.? I’m sure he is shocked the Dem power center didn’t prevail. I noted the Blade has him stating he wasn’t taking calls from reporters. I hope the city can rebuild. This is a time of uncertainity – not sure where the pockets of support are for anyone.
I knew in my race it was a risk. There were many factors set up against me but I’m pleased at least a cross section of the voters understood that I have worked hard for the community the last four years and before I was elected.
As to the make-up of the TPS Board now – the community will have to be judge and they will need to get involved to hold the electeds accountable. I was comfortable with that – many are not. I’ve learned quite a bit over the years and I will no longer be in a position of a quiet voice doing the right thing but often times politicals are actors and the community doesn’t have time to see through what is not being done or exposed.
As I stated in various venues, I sincerely appreciate the support and endorsements from various groups and individuals. TPS is a system that works hard at not changing. We have some good leadership in certain areas but often the status quo has the power to defeat new, fresh ideas and dedicated quality people time and time again.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:06 am

7
Daveschulz Says:

Thanks for the great public service Darlene. Sorry it didn’t work out but things happen for a reason and you did your good work. Now time for yourself and your family.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:54 am

8
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

HEY DEMOCRATS, LETS PUT AWAY OUR PETTY DEFERENCES AND WORK TO RETURN TOLEDO BACK TO ITS GREATNESS AND RETURN TED STICKLAND, MARCY KAPTUR AND ELECT LEE FISHER US SENATOR AND LOPEZ AS OUR COUNTY AUDITOR
November 5th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

9
Rockets Man Says:

I’m surprised no one talked about the Sylvania Township’s dynamic duo (sense my sarcasm?) of Liedel/Hanley didn’t win the re-election. Mmmm mmmm mmmmmM!
November 5th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

10
wwforlife Says:

Daveschulz Says:
“Thanks for the great public service Darlene. Sorry it didn’t work out but things happen for a reason and you did your good work. Now time for yourself and your family.”
Dave, Knowing Darlene, ___and she has already confirmed this__ she will still follow her passion of working hard for the students and she will continue her battle to hold TPS accountable. Although we have lost her on the board, she has shown us what we are really up against and for that we thank her. I hope that her lone voice will now be heard by a broader section of the city and more will rally to the seriousness of school issues. If I were those that spoke ill of her without really knowing her and those that blindly followed the agenda of their chosen leader, I would take time to reflect on the hill she had to climb and on: how__with no large bankroll: with an attack by the Teachers Federation president on her failure to be a rubber stamp: for her stand with a community and against those that had only political ambitions: and that without the support of the Democratic party__and she is a Democrat__ that she managed to come so close. I would also look closely at those that had a purely political motivation for campaigning against her from the safety of a mayoral campaign office. Did this vindictiveness and their association with this candidate cause the loss of the mayoral race? They were forewarned. Mrs. Fisher was defeated at the polls but she is a winner in the hearts of those that really know her motivations on the school board and we now welcome her on the outside with open arms as we suit up for another battle to save our children.
We have a saying in the Caribbean that “all that cannot hear… will feel.”
Well for those that could not hear Mrs. Fisher’s message of alarm and concern for TPS and the schools… many will feel the results of their negligence, sheep mentality and political motivation.
But it ain’t over yet!
November 5th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

11
Daveschulz Says:

No thanks Friedman….
November 5th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

12
kateb Says:

(shout out to Michael – hello!)
Darlene I truly appreciate your time on the school board. One of the things that has been accomplished that will serve our children well for many years to come has been the change to zero based budgeting. That was huge.
Your voice was the voice of the community watch dog. I understand how difficult it must have been for you to stand your ground while people who want to use the school budget for their own agendas, often actually using our children in self-service rather than for any educational purpose.
Now that you are gone and with the winners of the election being the types of characters that they are – the budget is now fair game for everyone. And the Union will now be in complete control of the district. They will get their greatest desire which is contract negotiation without anyone to hold them accountable and no fear of any community transparency.
So, while I understand your desire to run and continue watching after the educational interests of our communities children – its clear to see that the community has not developed enough of a level of interest in the educational welfare of their children to make the effort to educate THEMSELVES on the issues in the public school system and what needs to be done and who can be trusted to do it. They most certainly will pay the price for this decision until the level of pain created by their choices reaches an intolerable level.
I’ve seen this in my own life and the lives of people I care about. It’s the human condition. It’s frustrating to see people making such terrible decisions and in this case the affected disenfranchised victims are the children, which makes it even more heartbreaking to observe. But the people who have bad intentions and self-serving agendas don’t care that the children are victimized.
But looking after the welfare of the children is not the role of the bad guys, is it? It’s the role of the community. And sadly, to date, Toledo hasn’t stepped up.
So for the next few years as this has to play out – you’re just as well to stay out of the process.
November 5th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

13
Missdeejay Says:

I also was surprised when both African-American papers endorsed K W. I was also disapointed that one didn’t support Bell, but I was happy that Bell won,I wish him the best because we need some direction in this city.Keith W. seemed to be a nice guy but, My OPinion,he had too much baggage for the climate we are in right now and he wasn’t strong on safety in our neighborhoods.
I hope that we can get some of these old buildings torn down in Lagrange St. area,like the one on Elm st where Cindy Sumner was found. Why are these abandoned buildings still standing? Do the citizens in this city realize that many people in the central city are home owners and pay taxes, work jobs,raise children,take care of their elderly relatives,etc.etc. We are the forgotten end of the city and we are not all the under class, this is just where we can aford to live.[I know that this was not the point of this discussion]
November 5th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

14
Missdeejay Says:

I intend to work with Darlene,you need help when they beat you down, and they always beat up on the person who “speaks truth to power” because they know that these people will insist on them doing their jobs. She needs and deserves our support.
November 5th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

15
Lafe Says:

People: I am surprised that the Toledo voters went dumb and voted Larry Sykes back into office. His prior term was of no consequence and especially when he was selling wolf tickets to the general white contractors about they had better be sharing the 680 million in the school rebuild contracts with minority contractors or Larry Sykes was coming after them with two fist and baseball bat.
What happened to that? Larry fell asleep and lost his voice as did others who were heading up the oversight committee.
A complete sham. That was why I was so hard on Larry in my columns…he blew smoke and now he had the gall to run again and guess what? He won! Toledo voters deserve better but they have short memories on the Larry Sykes and others and the nonsense they spout.
Hats off to Darlene Fisher for her courage and perserverance on the board. I voted several times for her under assumed names but to no avail!
I do not see anyone on the current board makeup that will be a fighter and stand up to Fran Lawrence and fellow board members.
Makes you wonder why people want such positions if they are not going to effectively use them for the good of all rather than just warm a chair and puff up their resumes.
November 5th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

16
Steven Flagg Says:

I realized as the results were coming in that this trend in voting was likely occurring. Have not had time to look at results, but will in time. No hurry at this time.
Nothing in Toledo surprises me any more. As to Friedman, do you really know what is happening in your Party and your City? Clueless in Toledo that is where he is along with a whole lot of other Toledoans of all races.
The biggest problem with TPS has been, and is, Fran Lawrence and her husband and the politics they play. There may have been a day when they were innovators and leaders but that day has long passed and right now they are holding students hostage with an anti-student contract.
When are folks going to realize that a Teachers Union does not hold the interests of students first? And what is good for the adult employees may not be good for students. Individual teachers may have strong and good reasons for being in the classroom, but the TFT is not interested in student performance except for the public relations that might help extract even more money from a public that seems incapable of standing up for itself and saying NO.
Look for a large TPS property levy on the ballot next year. They are preparing for it even as I write. Lots of questions need to be asked. Will they be asked? Will voters once again buy the “its for the kids” line from TPS and the bargaining units at the feeding trough.
November 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

17
rogue Says:

Missdeejay wrote:
I also was surprised when both African-American papers endorsed K W. I was also disapointed that one didn’t support Bell
I wasn’t surprised at all. Wilkowski was the endorsed Dem, both papers fell in line with the Democrat Party regardless of race.
Standard S.O.P.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

18
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

FRAN LAWRENCE IS AN OUTSTANDING UNION LEADER AND SO IS DAL….BOTH FRIENDS OF MINE
November 5th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

19
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

I HAVE LEARNED OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, THAT YOU RIGHT LEANING CONSERVATIVES REALLY ARE NEGATIVE PEOPLE…I TRY AND BE POSITIVE BUT YOU NEO CONS BEAT ME DOWN…JUST LIKE RUSH GAS BAG LIMBAUGH…I HOPE HE FAILS REMEMBER THAT STATEMENT…WELL I WISH MIKE BELL THE VERY BEST…I JUST HOPE HE COMES BACK TO HIS ROOTS, THAT IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WHERE HE BELONGS
November 5th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

20
jenny Says:

Why are we surprised that African Americans voted for Bell, English, etc. It’s the same with all ethic groups. My Irish grandparents would have voted for the devil if he called himself O’Satan.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

21
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

JENNY, I THINK YOU ARE WRONG ASK YOUR SELF ONE QUESTION…THAT IS WHAT HAVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT DONE FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR. NOT A THING EXCEPT USE THEM. REPUBLICANS ARE A REGIONAL, WHITE MALE PARTY
November 5th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

22
Not Again Says:

That is a joke freidman, what exactly has the dem party done for black folks? Besides hold them down?
November 5th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

23
Not Again Says:

|You should look at yourself in the mirror freidman, #19 is about as negative as you can get. I hope bell does well too. Thank god he knocked off wilkoski.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

24
rogue Says:

#13 Missdeejay wrote:
I also was surprised when both African-American papers endorsed K W. I was also disapointed that one didn’t support Bell
I wasn’t surprised at all. Wilkowski was the endorsed Dem, both papers fell in line with the Democrat Party regardless of race.
Standard S.O.P.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

25
Not Again Says:

I said early on, that bell would win because he would get 98% of the black vote. Case closed.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

26
Not Again Says:

The majority of black folks clearly have no allegiance whatsoever for the dem party.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

27
LisaRenee Says:

Michael, most of the people commenting on this thread are not “right leaning conservatives” — they are those who are honest about reality and most are or were Democrats. We have to stop ignoring why Bell won and as to why Sykes won. These are not small petty differences, it’s something that sooner or later the party has to face. Or continue to lose…
While I’m not sure Bell got 98% of the black vote, he did get several key wards, so your prediction was not all wrong Not Again and it’s clear that high vote differential is what won him the election. I honestly admit I thought with the amount of his time and life Wilkowski spent on the Obama campaign that there were better inroads in the central city than existed.
BGdem nailed it early in this thread,
There is a huge racial divide in the City of Toledo whether people want to admit it or not.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

28
Not Again Says:

I agree, Lisa, BGdem definitely got it right. And wilkoski will never be mayor of toledo. Maybe obama will appoint him czar of the bread lines for all of toledo, since he was such a good worker for the party.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

29
Sujay Says:

Lisa Renee and bgdem (# 2 and #27) – Let’s scale back a bit on this race stuff for a second. In ‘02, Ford clobbered Democrat Kest even though the city is still overwhelmingly white. If the city was that racially polarized, that would not have happened. And if race was that big of a factor, Wilko would have won in predominantly white South Toledo. But he didn’t. Does race enter into the equation? Sure, but probably not as much as it does in other cities.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

30
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

race is a big problem, lets look at another color…red and blue states…alabama,mississippi,tennessee,arkansas, west virginia. oklahoma and kentucky…all deep red and strong republican,obama, had no chance….lilly white, all male, and the region is called the deep south…now you see why the south lost the war.southerns are stupid people.listen to the talk
one person could be in a room and they would say you all. now just how stupid is that eric canter a republican from virginia is as stupid as they come or stupid as a box of rocks from the party of no
November 6th, 2009 at 12:48 am

31
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

hey folks watch at 6 on channel 44…mathews, keith obermann and rachel maddow…outstanding new
November 6th, 2009 at 12:52 am

32
Not Again Says:

Number 30 was an extremely ignorant comment. And very bigoted as well.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:28 am

33
jonc Says:

Number 30 and number 21 show how tainted to one side Mr. F. is. The bigot comes out.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:30 am

34
Missdeejay Says:

Yes there is a big racial divide in our city and all over this country. Racism, We live it and see it on and in every form of media in the US. If there is diversity on your job,[race and gender] you see it at work. If you live in a diverse neighborhood you see it there too. We can’t escape it no matter what.
My life as a African American, has taught me many things but I am thankful to have lived this long to see some things change and it’s not all good.
Being able to discuss it on this site is a good thing, and helps us all to grow and learn more about each other.
November 6th, 2009 at 8:03 am

35
jim Says:

Not Again,
You asked what Democrats ever did for African Americans? The Civil Rights laws passed in the 1960s, against the explicit opposition of Republicans… and when Democrats passed the laws protecting the basic civil rights of blacks, the south became overwhelmingly Republican.
So equality… treating blacks like people… the Democrats did that for them. It’s a shame the Republicans lost their progressive spirit that helped save the nation in the 1860s.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:38 am

36
Missdeejay Says:

rogue;#17, #24
When I saw those endorsements I thought that at least the “Truth” would have done like the Blade and stradled the fence. I guess that I gave them too much credit.I have been surprised before!
However, being a life-long Dem, I voted for Bell and I am glad that he won. The Naysayers in my inner circle are already trying to knock him but.HE WON. Now lets see some PROGRESS.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:45 am

37
LisaRenee Says:

Missdeejay, blogs are a hard place to discuss things at times, but they can at least start a conversation, and I agree with you it’s long over due.
The deeper questions like why did that many black voters not feel as if the other candidates deserved their votes? Why did so many white voters not feel that some of the black candidates deserved their votes? Those can’t be answered here but pretending race was not a factor for some who voted Tuesday and acting as if now that it’s over we can just sing kumbya is not something I’m willing to do.
The largest irony in this voter outcome was that Keith Wilkowski as the founder of Toledoans for Obama was convinced that race did not matter in elections, that people were beyond that. He was right when it came to most white voters, Mike Bell’s election also demonstrates that. There is a disconnect between some parts of our City though, and we can either acknowledge that, encourage open, honest communication, or continue to pretend. I think many of us are tired of pretending.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:56 am

38
Missdeejay Says:

LisaRenee,
I agree, I to am tired of all of the pretending.That is one of the main reasons that I retired when I did. It had become overwhelming and mostly from my Union brothers and sisters of “all” races.Of course I am grateful for the victories that I experienced.”Hind sight is 20-20 vision right?
The “disconnect” between some parts of our City is like the “elephant” in the room,just standing there and the people in the room pretend like they don’t see him.How do we get him out of here.We have to devour him one spoonful at a time.{SMILE}
November 6th, 2009 at 10:23 am

39
Not Again Says:

Missdeejay Says:
“However, being a life-long Dem, I voted for Bell and I am glad that he won. The Naysayers in my inner circle are already trying to knock him but.HE WON. Now lets see some PROGRESS.”
So, as a lifelong dem that voted for the independent, did you vote for Bell because he is black?
November 6th, 2009 at 10:36 am

40
LisaRenee Says:

I don’t disagree MissDeeJay, it’s clear that many were divided on who was the better mayoral candidate and voters like you voted based on who you felt was the better candidate. That was evidenced city wide with most of the wards demonstrating how close of a decision it was for many. That needs to be acknowledged because it’s not fair to suggest that race was a factor for everyone on either side.
While I like Phil Copeland as a person, it’s hard to imagine why his performance directly as a council person earned him the number one spot or why it was felt that Larry Sykes should be returned to the School Board. It’s also clear the Democratic slate did not win in any Ward and that neither English nor Green were well received in wards that were traditionally felt to be democratic strongholds. They were supported in the central city wards more than they were in the suburban wards.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:49 am

41
Missdeejay Says:

“YES,BLACK AND QUALIFIED” I have my biases too.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:50 am

42
LisaRenee Says:

We all do, at least you are honest about it. I have no problem admitting I want to see more women elected, but I agree with you that they have to be qualified.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:56 am

43
Not Again Says:

I would have voted for bell if I had a vote, in spite of his blackness.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:08 am

44
Missdeejay Says:

NotAgain #39
Post 41 is my answer to your question.
At first and during some of the campaign I had some concerns about Mike Bell, I hadn’t decided and didn’t vote for him in the primary. After he made it to the election I took another long look at him.
I also expressed my concerns to his website and received a response from his staff.After much thought I decided to give him a chance. I’m glad I did and I am hoping for the best.
Toledo Needs a positive change NOW.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:16 am

45
Not Again Says:

I agree on change, I just hope he does not try to bring the obama change that we don’t need.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:23 am

46
Not Again Says:

Thanks Missdeejay, if you had said you voted for wilkoski, I would have been surprised.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:06 am

47
Chad Says:

What have the Democrat Party done for people of color??? Gave them welfare which has destroyed how many generations of African American fathers???
As far as re-electing Ted and electing Lee next year, I say no thanks! They have done enough damage to our state!!!
And the south did not lose the civil war because of just having white guys. They lost because the North had the most factories, most people, and William Tecumseh Sherman broke their backs when he burned Atlanta. What a stupid comment!
As far as Neo-Cons being naysayers in this city, look at all the policies the Democrats have given us since they have controlled the city for 40-50yrs. The Democrat Party has destroyed this city PERIOD! Toeldo has always been an “angry city” since i can remember! How any Democrat can look at all the closed up factories, abandoned buildings, and people who have left this city and be proud, its beyond me! And if you don’t want to talk about Toledo, let’s talk about Detroit! That has had years of Democrat Party reign and look what has happened.
Sounds like MR. F is a little upset at the Democrats showing, not just locally but nationwide, this past tuesday!
November 8th, 2009 at 7:51 am

48
Missdeejay Says:

Chad#47
You expressed my thoughts exactly in your first paragraph I have been saying this for 40 years, that the welfare program breeds poverty,it made some people lazy for life for generations.
I always new that I had to have a job, started working as a child,babysitting my cousins,graduated from Scott high school, couldn”t get a decent job in Toledo because I was “colored” and even though I was 119 out of 267 of the graduates that year they could only recomend me to a job working for a “colored” doctor making $25 per week. They placed the “white girls” at the many big business offices downtown. Our major was business admin.I then moved to Calif. where it was a little easier to get a job. Racism and prejudice was alive and well there too but I could get a job making more that $25 per week. Even in 1961 that was a low wage.
Have you ever wondered why they made the law, that the only way women could get welfare back then was to have no man in the house. So If a male head of house hold lost his job of menial pay, he had to move out of the house so that his kids could eat and qualify for ADC. People in my family had to do this to get help when the husband got laid off.
All that a “colored” woman could get was a job cleaning up “white peoples houses” or something along those lines in the 50s and 60s. Should we blame all of this on the Dems, I think that there is enough blame to go around.
At least in California they encouraged the women on ADC to get some training or education at the states expense so that they could get off welfare.Some of us prevailed in spite of the obstacles.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:30 am

49
Chad Says:

Miss DeeJay….
I don’t mind paying welfare to some recipients. Let’s face it, while i believe it was a disaster, it probably has helped some people, although a small portion. I believe that for those on welfare they must be mandated to get their HS degree, and get some kind of degree, associates/bachelor’s, or a trade. Some welfare programs do not do this, although when the reform was passed in the 90s it did address some of these issues!
I am glad you made it Miss DeeJay. As a recent college grad, doesn’t all the hard work pay off??!!
November 8th, 2009 at 11:44 am

50
Chad Says:

Oh and I am sorry you have had to experience racism and prejuidice. Although I have not walked in your shoes it hopefully wanted to make you succeed and “rub it in the powers that be” faces. At least that is how I would have felt!
November 8th, 2009 at 11:45 am

51
Missdeejay Says:

Chad #50
I graduated from HS and the school of life. I was blessed to get good paying jobs and used my talents to advance myself, I worked 32 years on my last job, and thats where I got my education on life. And you are right my revenge was success. You know some people under estimate your intelligence and ability to catch on. Those kinds of jobs are gone now.I mean the ones with good wages. Welfare was not enough money for me. I had to work and raise a child.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

52
MICHAEL L. FRIEDMAN Says:

i ment item 30 to be bigited… i do hate people from the south. they are backwards…look on tv … the spot about the hillbilly hot tub. the south st its best…the food they eat….possom, fat back hog inerts and they vote republican, now just how stupid can you get…george dubya bush a texan….my case rests
November 9th, 2009 at 12:06 am

53
LisaRenee Says:

I was going to delete that comment, but maybe people really need to see how you feel then judge your contributions based on that. That was really an inappropriate comment to write.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:14 am

54
meghan Says:

Wow Friedman, i think you have really lost it.
November 9th, 2009 at 12:19 am

55
Brian Maxson Says:

Thank you, Lisa. I appreciate your patience
November 9th, 2009 at 12:21 am

56
Not Again Says:

I guess freidman is a clear reflection of the leadership qualities of the dem party.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:26 am

57
Not Again Says:

Thanks Lisa, it should stay, so the people can see the real freidman. Not that it is news. Besides being a bigot, he is hopelessly illiterate.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:29 am

58
LisaRenee Says:

He’s not illiterate, you know his typing is limited after the stroke and I did not fix the spelling. Nor does he reflect the leadership of those I know in the Democratic Party when he makes comments like that. I hope those who have encouraged him realize they are not helping him nor our party.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:47 am

59
henri Says:

Ya know Friedman, I read your #30 post way back when it first went up. I’m glad Lisa left it up for all to see who the real bigot is…
Gotta wonder from your rant just how many branches are even in YOUR tree…
November 9th, 2009 at 11:28 am

60
Chad Says:

I have lived in the south, all people there aren’t backwards hillbillies and rednecks. If we wanted to split some hairs here, i could talk of the element that was in the crowd at Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama rallies. But I will leave it at that!
November 10th, 2009 at 1:43 am

61
Rub of the Green Says:

It appears that Michael needs to reflect on his own prejudices. At its heart, our democracy affirms every person’s right to vote regardless of their habits of bathing, culinary preferences, choice of music or — shocking Michael! — their party or political views. This is the democracy we all should fight to keep.
Hypocracy and bigotry have no geographic limits. I grew up in the South during the 50s and 60s. I noticed that the school buses were burned in Pontiac, Mi. and that South Boston erupted in protest against efforts to integrate schools. I also noticed as a college student in Ohio that I was the rare white person who actually knew many blacks and had blacks among my close friends. My northern white student friends had lived in a much more segregated world than I had. Even more interesting to some (Michael perhaps) was that by having black friends, I also knew that blacks were individuals with their own views, priorities, talents and political preferences — indeed, some were Republican, but didn’t have cars sitting on concrete blocks in their front yards and eat squirrel and possum stew. Imagine!
November 10th, 2009 at 6:28 am

62
Sujay Says:

Mike #52 and Lisa Renee #53 – I chuckled at Mike’s comment. I don’t think it’s inappropriate. And it’s hardly racist. Being a southerner is not an immutable characteristc. In other words, they’re not genetically predisposed to fly confederate flags, listen to country music, screw their cousins, repeatedly vote for far right idiots, hate blacks and Jews, and boast about their obesity rates low levels of educational attainment. If they don’t like being sniped at, the solution is easy: Get over the fact that you lost the civil war, go to the dentist, dump the pickup truck, educate yourself before going into the voting booth, try reading a book other than Going Rogue and, well, you get the idea. And I say this all as a fan of Clinton, a southerner who successfully extricated himself from this crap.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

63
Not Again Says:

Sujay, that was the comment of a (admin deletion because it is an insult even if written in spanish).
November 25th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

64
LisaRenee Says:

Congratulations Sujay, you just demonstrated that you are just as judgmental, biased and uncivil as Friedman’s comment was.
It’s a good thing you don’t post under your real name, you can avoid backlash for it, but a representative of the Democratic Party doesn’t have that luxury.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

65
Not Again Says:

Is it ok to delete my insult against a racist and leave the racist rants? I guess that is the progressive, the politically correct thing to do.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

66
LisaRenee Says:

You directed at an individual by name. He directed it at a group. It’s simple, it’s nothing new as far as the rules.
Not to mention, the bad behavior of one person does not mean bad behavior from another should be the goal.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

67
LisaRenee Says:

2. Civil discourse is the goal, repeated personal insults directed at other members of the blog, especially those not related to a topic or not in a heated discussion of a topic will be edited/deleted.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

68
Not Again Says:

Not to nitpick, but how does one = “repeated personal insults directed at other members of the blog”?
November 25th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

69
Not Again Says:

I have never insulted Sujay
November 25th, 2009 at 9:05 pm

70
LisaRenee Says:

Someone who on a regular basis feels it necessary to make personal insults as a part of their comments to those who comment here.
And you just did, as well as you have in the past to others. We’ve had this discussion on and off blog, it’s fairly simple, though it seems for some reason to be something that you want to keep addressing. Don’t call people names, stay on topic and you won’t have any comments edited.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

71
Not Again Says:

Sorry Lisa, let me link to a previous comment of relevance to sujay. Replace freidman with sujay, in this case.
henri Says:
Ya know Friedman, I read your #30 post way back when it first went up. I’m glad Lisa left it up for all to see who the real bigot is…
Gotta wonder from your rant just how many branches are even in YOUR tree…
November 25th, 2009 at 9:18 pm

72
LisaRenee Says:

I’m tired of you doing this – it’s very simple, you make repeated insults directed to people on the blog – that’s enough to edit your comments. I’m not going to keep some kind of a scoring system as far as who you have insulted and who you have not. You have insulted people, which means as I wrote about, anyone who makes repeated insults to members of the blog will find them edited, this doesn’t mean you get one freebie insult per person, when you get to the point where you have had your comments edited, which you have? That’s it. Hopefully now that is clear, because this is really getting old and we have gone through this with you in moderation and out of moderation enough times that we should never have to have this discussion again…
November 25th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

73
Not Again Says:

Yes ma’am
November 25th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

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Sujay Says:

Lisa (#64) – Judgmental? That’s fine. So is just about every regular in visitor to GCJ. My point is that it’s not bigoted or racist to insult southerners.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

75
Not Again Says:

Sujay Says:
“Lisa (#64) – Judgmental? That’s fine. So is just about every regular in visitor to GCJ. My point is that it’s not bigoted or racist to insult southerners.”
Do you you support this Lisa? do you support sujay insulting every southerner?
November 25th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

76
LisaRenee Says:

I don’t have time for the never ending drama, of course I don’t support it, and if he makes a direct insult to a person who comments on the blog? I’ll edit it. If he makes a comment directed at an entire group of people? I think you are intelligent enough to know the difference and to gauge his credibility as a commenter based on the positions he takes.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

77
Not Again Says:

There is much more racism here in Ohio than in any southern state. Sujay, have you been to any small towns in Ohio? like pembervile or grand rapids? No black folks there. You know why? Because they would never be hired.
In the south there is real interaction between the races and you would know that if you had a clue.
Segregation is a way of life in the north, and one indication is the private schools and in particular, the failure of tps.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

78
LisaRenee Says:

I agree with you that racism seems to exist more here than in other places, including the South. Unfortunately it all to often goes both ways.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:53 pm